Has anyone else replaced a wooden rudder with the Crystaliner fiberglas one? I'm curious about how well the glass one fits and how huge a hassle it is to get the cheeks, pintles, etc off the old one and on the new one. Any other other install related advice will be most appreciated.
Tom Harrer
Whitewings III
Tom,
I have replaced wooden rudders, none on a BCC, but the main thing you will find in getting out the fastenings is that they may be corroded inside the rudder and be a real bear to unbolt and push back through. I don’t know how the shipwrights at Sam L. put the bolts thru but if they did it right with the holes filled with epoxy and redrilled and the bolts waxed before assembly you may have an easy time of getting it apart. The Westsail that I worked on had the cheeks epoxied to the rudder and getting them off was an experience.
Bob Plank
Jolie Brise
Ahoy Tom, my 1985 vintage factory BCC rudder, is a Foss Foam fiberglass one.
When I replaced the Oak wood cheeks with Teak wood cheeks, I found that SLM Co had installed the ss thru bolts, using only loosely fitting copper pipe as sleeves thru the foam filled rudder.
It wasn’t hard at all to remove the cheeks, by prying them off with wooden wedges, after removing the nuts and washers. They seemed to be bedded with a white Sika Flex type sealant, that was a little crumbly, not like the adhesiveness of 3M5200.
When replacing I used the epoxy filled hole method that Bob Plank suggests above.
Things that did give me trouble were the rudder’s, positive bouyancy when re-installing the rudder in the water, the f/g and foam under the pintals got compressed allowing the rudder to make clunk noises underway, and water did get into the foam sandwich construction.
Douglas
Hi Tom, I replaced complete pintles and gudgeons (new castings) on our rudder a couple of years ago and had a challenge with alignment. If you’d like any of the details, just let me know. It’s all fun. Ray, Whisper
Hi Tom, I replaced complete pintles and gudgeons (new castings) on our rudder a couple of years ago and had a challenge with alignment. If you’d like any of the details, just let me know. It’s all fun. Ray, Whisper
Hi Tom, I replaced the Oak cheeks on my 1985 vintage SLM Co BCC with Teak and had little to no problem.
The rudder manufactured by Foss Foam did have some problems. The areas under the pentals, got compressed, and allowed the rudder to make clunk sounds, while underway.
The through ss bolts were run thru the f/g and foam with copper pipe as compression tubes, and they didn’t work.
Would have been better to use the epoxy filled holes as Bob Plank mentions above.
After removing the nuts, I just used wooden wedges driven under the Oak cheeks, and they parted easily.
The big hassel was replacing the rudder while the boat was in the water. Somewhere I read that rudders needed to be neutrally bouyant, well my Foss Foam rudder was as bouyant as a surfboard. It took two struggling men as well as the requsite 4 diver weight belts, to re-install the rudder.
Douglas
Ray & Douglas:
Thanks for the response. I assume you found the pintles bedded in 5200 Ray. Any tricks to remove them without killing the rudder? My wooden one has only a small chunk out of the very bottom edge....when I replace it, I would like to keep it as a good spare (or piece of mahogany art)
Douglas: Roger Olson says the Crystaliner version of the FG rudder is much less floaty. It is solid glass where the pintles attach and at the bottom edge. In the Great Lakes, I get to haulout every year...plan to replace the rudder on the hard.
Tom
Hi Tom,
This is related to the discussion about rudder weight and installation issues last year which is still in the archives, but here is a reprise of our experience replacing Itchen’s Foss rudder with the newer Crystalliner version.
We had no problem getting the cheekpieces off the old rudder but I found out after completing the job that that was probably because Mark Giegel had already done it once before when he did a lot of first-rate renovating of paint and varnish. Turned out that, like us, he had used Dolphinite as the bedding compound which is why I had no trouble getting them off. Dolphinite is definitely the way to go for any such bedding tasks if one ever wants to be able to redo the job in the future. If your rudder cheeks are bedded in 3M 5200 you have my deep sympathy! With Dolphinite all that is needed is to tap some long-tapered wedges into the joint and then take a beer or lunch break for a little while, return to it and tap some more and they will gradually separate with little resistance. If I had to separate a 5200 joint I would start with some wedges to get a tiny amount of working room and then try using a length of 0.010" or so piano wire wrapped around two dowel handles and see if that would cut/saw through the adhesive. Probably would take a lot of time and fussing and might not work at all.
We had no trouble getting the pintles and gudgeons to line-up but did spend a lot of time superimposing the old and new rudders and eyeballing and marking out the bolt hole positions. The bronze straps fit very well with only a small amount of fileing of fiberglass to get them to slide into position. Had to make a couple holes a little-bit oversize to finish the alignement adjustment for the cheekpieces but it was all done without disaster. Were I to do it over again I would seriously consider taking the time to get whatever machine shop assistance was needed to bore out the gudgeon holes to accept the newer-style nylon bushings. After a couple thousand more sea miles since the installation the pintle-gudgeon fit has again become loose enough to “clunk” a bit whilst at anchor in a chop. Not a serious problem but the bushings would be a nice amenity.
Regards,
Scott
Tom, No real problems associated with the 5200 bedding. Loosened all the hardware and then drifted the bolts out of place. The rudder was solid at the mounting sites. I did this job on the hard, much easier. Good luck, Ray
