bilge pumps continued

Anyone have  suggestion for a way to keep the hose from back-draining a
bucketful after the pump shuts down?  A small pump with small diameter
hose?
Bigger pump & hose with a check valve? Trade offs, tradeoffs . . . .
In our Pan Oceanic 46, we have an inline check valve in stalled in the bilge pump hose, it doesn't stop all the water from returning to the bilge, but it does stop a majority of the water. Some will argue that a check valve may become clogged, and rightly so, but in two years of operation in conjunction with the Rule pump screen have been able to sucessfuly pass small particles without any clogging.
Prior to installing the Rule pump, we had a Jabsco diaphragm bilge pump Rule part number 36680-2000 5.5 gpm/330gph installed with a small Jabsco strainer and check valve. The up-side to the diaphragm pump is having the ability to mount the pump where it was easy to access, being able to draw water from a deep sump (head heigth), and locating only a hose and strainer in the bilge. Down-side are many, cost of the pump is $279.00, pump service kits are $84.99,in addition to the inline strainer, hose end strainer; the cost of comparable 360gph pump and float switch kit is $36.49 part number Rule 25/35. In addition to cost, we found the diaphragm pump valves do not like minor debris and fuel/oil/chemicals normaly found in engine sumps, in a perfect world there would only be water down there, foreign material which stops the diaphragm pump cold, doesn't seem to bother the less expensive plastic Rule pumps.
Everyone has there little bilge pump horror stories, here is mine; on a delivery from Alameda to Hawaii last year, the owner elected to replace his 1000 gph plastic Rule bilge pump with the diaphragm pump, two days out it failed. Needless to say, due to space limitations, he threw the working Rule pump in the trash before leaving. With a badly leaking propeller shaf packing gland and no material onboard to repack it underway and no spare parts kit for the new diaphragm pump, why you ask, "it's new, we don't need spare parts said the owner."  With Whale pump in hand, we pump our way 2,500 miles to Hawaii. Up-side, we had $20,000 worth of new rigging and electronics onboard, to bad it couldn't operate the manual bilge pump.
Believe it or not, some boat manufacturers subscribe to the theory, big boats have plenty of reserve volume, take longer to sink and therefor require smaller bilge pumps; smaller boats having less volume are subject to sinking quicker and therefore require larger bilge per volume. Is this nuts or what, I'll bet they haven't pump 24x7 all the way to Hawaii, if they did, I'll bet they will change there tune.
Best advise I can offer: two bilge pumps are better than one, larger the better and always carry a spare pump, float switch and the tools and materials to change out the pump underway. Check the condition of your manual bilge pump, hose and strainer, if not in top form replace it now, don't wait until its convient to do the job because the electric ones are working fine, you never know when the batteries will go south for the winter. Show everone onboard where the manual bulge pump handle is stored, don't laugh, we used a screw driver for two day before we found the pump handle ![](upload://kN2m7Pza1FDXUBOfebj6WVj6vki.gif)
Best wishes and Happy Holidays,
Marty Chin, BCC Shamrock

Another solution to getting the last drops out of the bilge is through
wicking. Putting a small tube diameter pump in the bilge to pump out the
last half inch of water that the whale gusher just won’t suck up… this is
a solution that will leave the heaviest debris remaining to clog the
smallest tube.

Instead, install a passive device. Put a wicking material that resists rot
and mildew, such as an antibacterial sponge, into the bilge (secured).
Then, once the bilge is pumped down, the remaining water will wick into the
sponge, thus increasing evaporation. When I am away from my boat for
prolonged periods, I leave my mop head in the bottom of the dry bilge.
This way, when those small amounts of water from who-knows-where find their
way to the bilge, they are immediately wicked into the mop head and the
wetted surface area increases a hundred fold, making evaporation work for
me.

-Greg

Original Message:

From: Marty Chin marty_chin@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:47:36 -0800 (PST)
To: bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bcc] bilge pumps continued

Anyone have suggestion for a way to keep the hose from back-draining a
bucketful after the pump shuts down? A small pump with small diameter
hose?
Bigger pump & hose with a check valve? Trade offs, tradeoffs . . . .


mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

Greg’s evaporative sponge is an idea I wish I’d thought of. West Marine
sells sheets of felted non-woven polywhatever designed to absorb oil in the
bilge, but since they also do wick up water I think that a couple or three
of them cable-tied to a stick might also do the trick if there is only a
small amount of water remaining after the pump does its work. Isn’t the
relative humidity down there so high that evaporation would be too slow to
deal with more than a pint or two? I’m inclined to favor small pump/small
hose – plus sponge – since the Gusher’s 1 1/2" hose and bulky bronze
strainer drains a lot of water back, and so does the several feet of 1 1/8
hose on the Rule 2000. For the small “shower sump” up forward, a sponge
sounds worth trying. Itchen has a small pump/small (and short) hose in that
location and the amount of drain-back is not too bad.

Has anyone fitted their BCC with a manual pump accessible inside
the cabin, and if so, where was it mounted and where did it discharge? I’m
thinking of installing one and don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

Scott (Itchen, BCC #73)

----- Original Message -----
From: <thegreg@mindspring.com >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: [bcc] bilge pumps continued

Another solution to getting the last drops out of the bilge is through
wicking. Putting a small tube diameter pump in the bilge to pump out the
last half inch of water that the whale gusher just won’t suck up… this
is
a solution that will leave the heaviest debris remaining to clog the
smallest tube.

Instead, install a passive device. Put a wicking material that resists
rot
and mildew, such as an antibacterial sponge, into the bilge (secured).
Then, once the bilge is pumped down, the remaining water will wick into
the
sponge, thus increasing evaporation. When I am away from my boat for
prolonged periods, I leave my mop head in the bottom of the dry bilge.
This way, when those small amounts of water from who-knows-where find
their
way to the bilge, they are immediately wicked into the mop head and the
wetted surface area increases a hundred fold, making evaporation work for
me.

-Greg

Is it real important to pump the last inch or two of water out of the
bilge? To protect the fresh water tanks? If you put a small pump
down at the bottom, then that pump has to be activated manually,
right? Because we don’t want it to be the first one that always comes
on, and does the work that the primary is supposed to do?

— In bcc@yahoogroups.com , “Scott Odell” <jso@r…> wrote:

Greg’s evaporative sponge is an idea I wish I’d thought of. West
Marine
sells sheets of felted non-woven polywhatever designed to absorb
oil in the
bilge, but since they also do wick up water I think that a couple
or three
of them cable-tied to a stick might also do the trick if there is
only a
small amount of water remaining after the pump does its work.
Isn’t the
relative humidity down there so high that evaporation would be too
slow to
deal with more than a pint or two? I’m inclined to favor small
pump/small
hose – plus sponge – since the Gusher’s 1 1/2" hose and bulky
bronze
strainer drains a lot of water back, and so does the several feet
of 1 1/8
hose on the Rule 2000. For the small “shower sump” up forward, a
sponge
sounds worth trying. Itchen has a small pump/small (and short) hose
in that
location and the amount of drain-back is not too bad.

Has anyone fitted their BCC with a manual pump accessible inside
the cabin, and if so, where was it mounted and where did it
discharge? I’m
thinking of installing one and don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

Scott (Itchen, BCC #73)

----- Original Message -----
From: <thegreg@m…>
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: [bcc] bilge pumps continued

Another solution to getting the last drops out of the bilge is
through
wicking. Putting a small tube diameter pump in the bilge to pump
out the
last half inch of water that the whale gusher just won’t suck
up… this
is
a solution that will leave the heaviest debris remaining to clog
the
smallest tube.

Instead, install a passive device. Put a wicking material that
resists
rot
and mildew, such as an antibacterial sponge, into the bilge
(secured).
Then, once the bilge is pumped down, the remaining water will
wick into
the
sponge, thus increasing evaporation. When I am away from my boat
for
prolonged periods, I leave my mop head in the bottom of the dry
bilge.
This way, when those small amounts of water from who-knows-where
find
their
way to the bilge, they are immediately wicked into the mop head
and the
wetted surface area increases a hundred fold, making evaporation
work for
me.

-Greg

----- Original Message -----
From: “joliebrise2003” <jonathanlang@bellsouth.net >

Is it real important to pump the last inch or two of water out of the
bilge? To protect the fresh water tanks?

In truth, it’s not at the top of my list, and certainly the aft water tank
is above the remaining bilge water after the Whale does its work. But there
is more than an “inch or two” after its big long hose drains back. Itchen
normally has a very dry bilge when sitting at the dock and I just thought it
would be nice to get that last bit of water out. Ought to knock the relative
humidity down a few percent and reduce mildew, corrosion, whatever . . …
It has also been said that a dry bilge helps slow down blistering, but how
much of a factor this is I do not know.

If you put a small pump

down at the bottom, then that pump has to be activated manually,
right? Because we don’t want it to be the first one that always comes
on, and does the work that the primary is supposed to do?

I think I would leave both pumps on automatic at the dock and have only the
bigger Rule on automatic under way.
The way the pumps are currently set up in Itchen is that the big Rule sits
in front of the aft water tank, with an automatic switch (electronic, not a
float). In that position when it shuts off there is enough water remaining
in the aft bilge and under the tank to require a couple dozen or more
strokes of the Gusher to get the remaining water out. I had in mind to keep
this Rule as the main automatic pump and also put a new small capacity/small
hose pump down in the aft bilge sump to get most of the remaining water out.
Could be automatically switched or manual – I can see advantages and
disadvantages either way.

Scott

Quoting “joliebrise2003” <jonathanlang@bellsouth.net >

you put a small pump

down at the bottom, then that pump has to be activated manually,
right? Because we don’t want it to be the first one that always comes
on, and does the work that the primary is supposed to do?

Here’s my take on that. I see the Rule in the higher position in front of
the water tank to actually be a backup pump, not the “primary”. Normally
very little water comes in and the small pump in the bottom of the aft sump
should be adequate to scavange that. If more water arrives from whatever
source than the small pump can handle, then the bigger pump in front of the
aft tank will cut in and hopefully keep the boat afloat. If that is not
enough or the batteries are dead, then there is the manual Gusher, two
buckets, VHF, and finally, the EPIRB.

I like the forward position under the cabin sole for a big pump – the space
is more generous and it is much more accessible when underway, for
maintenance and inspection. Since the little pump should normally handle
all the water, an alarm on the bigger pump or located a few inches above it
might make sense.

Scott

— In bcc@yahoogroups.com , “Scott Odell” <jso@r…> wrote:

Greg’s evaporative sponge is an idea I wish I’d thought of. West
Marine
sells sheets of felted non-woven polywhatever designed to absorb
oil in the
bilge, but since they also do wick up water I think that a couple
or three
of them cable-tied to a stick might also do the trick if there is
only a
small amount of water remaining after the pump does its work.
Isn’t the
relative humidity down there so high that evaporation would be too
slow to
deal with more than a pint or two? I’m inclined to favor small
pump/small
hose – plus sponge – since the Gusher’s 1 1/2" hose and bulky
bronze
strainer drains a lot of water back, and so does the several feet
of 1 1/8
hose on the Rule 2000. For the small “shower sump” up forward, a
sponge
sounds worth trying. Itchen has a small pump/small (and short) hose
in that
location and the amount of drain-back is not too bad.

Has anyone fitted their BCC with a manual pump accessible inside
the cabin, and if so, where was it mounted and where did it
discharge? I’m
thinking of installing one and don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

Scott (Itchen, BCC #73)

----- Original Message -----
From: <thegreg@m…>
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: [bcc] bilge pumps continued

Another solution to getting the last drops out of the bilge is
through
wicking. Putting a small tube diameter pump in the bilge to pump
out the
last half inch of water that the whale gusher just won’t suck
up… this
is
a solution that will leave the heaviest debris remaining to clog
the
smallest tube.

Instead, install a passive device. Put a wicking material that
resists
rot
and mildew, such as an antibacterial sponge, into the bilge
(secured).
Then, once the bilge is pumped down, the remaining water will
wick into
the
sponge, thus increasing evaporation. When I am away from my boat
for
prolonged periods, I leave my mop head in the bottom of the dry
bilge.
This way, when those small amounts of water from who-knows-where
find
their
way to the bilge, they are immediately wicked into the mop head
and the
wetted surface area increases a hundred fold, making evaporation
work for
me.

-Greg

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
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bcc members:

I have been following this web page for four + years. Last year I had the
opportunity to purchase a bcc" tradition" that I had admired for years or a
35’ Alden design Fuji cutter in Wisc. I chose the Fuji it was build similar
to bcc structurally and the inside look just a great (teak and all).
The larger cockpit is an improvement and the space is great. One year
sailing her and very much satisfied.

Thank you all for you help on repair problems. It has been fun.
Thanks
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Odell <jso@radix.net >
To: bcc@yahoogroups.com <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Date: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Re: bilge pumps continued

Quoting “joliebrise2003” <jonathanlang@bellsouth.net >

you put a small pump

down at the bottom, then that pump has to be activated manually,
right? Because we don’t want it to be the first one that always comes
on, and does the work that the primary is supposed to do?

Here’s my take on that. I see the Rule in the higher position in front of
the water tank to actually be a backup pump, not the “primary”. Normally
very little water comes in and the small pump in the bottom of the aft sump
should be adequate to scavange that. If more water arrives from whatever
source than the small pump can handle, then the bigger pump in front of
the
aft tank will cut in and hopefully keep the boat afloat. If that is not
enough or the batteries are dead, then there is the manual Gusher, two
buckets, VHF, and finally, the EPIRB.

I like the forward position under the cabin sole for a big pump – the
space
is more generous and it is much more accessible when underway, for
maintenance and inspection. Since the little pump should normally handle
all the water, an alarm on the bigger pump or located a few inches above it
might make sense.

Scott

— In bcc@yahoogroups.com , “Scott Odell” <jso@r…> wrote:

Greg’s evaporative sponge is an idea I wish I’d thought of. West
Marine
sells sheets of felted non-woven polywhatever designed to absorb
oil in the
bilge, but since they also do wick up water I think that a couple
or three
of them cable-tied to a stick might also do the trick if there is
only a
small amount of water remaining after the pump does its work.
Isn’t the
relative humidity down there so high that evaporation would be too
slow to
deal with more than a pint or two? I’m inclined to favor small
pump/small
hose – plus sponge – since the Gusher’s 1 1/2" hose and bulky
bronze
strainer drains a lot of water back, and so does the several feet
of 1 1/8
hose on the Rule 2000. For the small “shower sump” up forward, a
sponge
sounds worth trying. Itchen has a small pump/small (and short) hose
in that
location and the amount of drain-back is not too bad.

Has anyone fitted their BCC with a manual pump accessible inside
the cabin, and if so, where was it mounted and where did it
discharge? I’m
thinking of installing one and don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

Scott (Itchen, BCC #73)

----- Original Message -----
From: <thegreg@m…>
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: [bcc] bilge pumps continued

Another solution to getting the last drops out of the bilge is
through
wicking. Putting a small tube diameter pump in the bilge to pump
out the
last half inch of water that the whale gusher just won’t suck
up… this
is
a solution that will leave the heaviest debris remaining to clog
the
smallest tube.

Instead, install a passive device. Put a wicking material that
resists
rot
and mildew, such as an antibacterial sponge, into the bilge
(secured).
Then, once the bilge is pumped down, the remaining water will
wick into
the
sponge, thus increasing evaporation. When I am away from my boat
for
prolonged periods, I leave my mop head in the bottom of the dry
bilge.
This way, when those small amounts of water from who-knows-where
find
their
way to the bilge, they are immediately wicked into the mop head
and the
wetted surface area increases a hundred fold, making evaporation
work for
me.

-Greg

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
Post message: mailto:bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: mailto:bcc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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List owner: mailto:bcc-owner@yahoogroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
Post message: mailto:bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: mailto:bcc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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