Opinions from Owners

BCC Forum
1

I have enjoyed the recent flurry of questions and answers coming from all of
you experienced owners. So, I came up with some myself. 1. If buying new,
would you specify wooden decks? Why or why not? 2. Is the BCC flush deck
cockpit enjoyable enough for cruising, it looks exhausting? Are the cockpit
combing boards high enough and comfortable enough for leaning back on?
3. The bowsprit looks too flimsey to walk out on, has anyone added a pullpit
on the bowsprit like a Westsail 32? Does it make sense, or just detract from
the beauty. 4. I have a family of five. Is the BCC big enough (I have
only seen pictures) to accomodate five for limited cruising and weekend
excursions. 5. Is the “double berth” big enough for a married couple, or
will that end the marriage? 6. I have thought about port and starboard
quarter berths with the sink and range across from each other like on the
Falmouth Cutter, but with a pilot berth and two seatee berths. Would this
work out? Has anyone tried it? 7. Used as a pilot berth, is the pilot
berth big enough for a slim, 5’9" teenager to sleep on? 8. As the Sam Morse
Home Page obviously compares the BCC to a Crealock 34 for a size comparison,
if you were to buy new, would you buy the Crealock 34 or the BCC 28? So many
questions come to mind. Thank you all for your answers. John

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2

John, I dwelled over many of these same questions when we ordered our
Channel Cutter back in 1990. I’ll address the questions in the order
that you asked them. 1. The standard nonskid deck on the BCC is very
durable and extremely maintenance free. Although beautiful if properly
cared for, wooden decks require maintenance. They also had weight to
the boat up high which is not the most desirable place. Also, when you
add a teak deck to a boat like the BCC, you increase the probability of
leaks because the deck boards are screwed in place. 2. For the most
part, you learn to adjust to the cockpit of whatever boat you have.
When we’re offshore, we have a steering vane that does the work. It’s
then very easy to find a comfortable positon. For coastal sailing, I
usually steer with my feet and rest my back against the coaming. A
cockpit cushion can also add comfort. 3. The bowspirt is extremely
sturdy and well engineered. Lyle Hess knew what he was doing when he
designed his boats. 4. This depends on how adaptable and compatible
the crew members are. I once did a 300 mile offshore trip with five
people on the boat. You tend to stumble into one another more, and
patience is required from everyone. However, we survived the trip. As
a family of four, we regularly go on week long trips. One nice thing
about the cockpit and side decks of the BCC is that they make great
sleeping spots when at anchor. 5. My wife and I have slept together in
the double berth, but honestly, it’s a bit cramped for two adults. 6.
I’d ask Roger about that. 7. I’ve slept on the pilot berth, and I’m
6’1. Probably depends on what kind of sleeper you are. 8. I bought
the BCC! Seriously, they are both great boats and serious offshore
cruisers. One disadvantage with the Crealock, is that it is built with
a fiberglass floor pan. This reduces critical storage space for passage
making sailors.

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3

Message text written by INTERNET:bcc@egroups.com

I have enjoyed the recent flurry of questions and answers coming from all
of
you experienced owners. So, I came up with some myself. 1. If buying
new,
would you specify wooden decks? Why or why not? 2. Is the BCC flush deck
cockpit enjoyable enough for cruising, it looks exhausting? Are the
cockpit
combing boards high enough and comfortable enough for leaning back on?
3. The bowsprit looks too flimsey to walk out on, has anyone added a
pullpit
on the bowsprit like a Westsail 32? Does it make sense, or just detract
from
the beauty. 4. I have a family of five. Is the BCC big enough (I have
only seen pictures) to accomodate five for limited cruising and weekend
excursions. 5. Is the “double berth” big enough for a married couple, or
will that end the marriage? 6. I have thought about port and starboard
quarter berths with the sink and range across from each other like on the
Falmouth Cutter, but with a pilot berth and two seatee berths. Would this
work out? Has anyone tried it? 7. Used as a pilot berth, is the pilot
berth big enough for a slim, 5’9" teenager to sleep on? 8. As the Sam
Morse
Home Page obviously compares the BCC to a Crealock 34 for a size
comparison,
if you were to buy new, would you buy the Crealock 34 or the BCC 28? So
many
questions come to mind. Thank you all for your answers. John

<

Hi John!

One thing I can tell you about first hand is the bow sprit.
It is built of 3-4 pieces of vertical grain douglass fir glued together
with resorcinol which makes it stronger than a solid timber. It is roughly
6x6 at the butt and tapers to 2 3/4 inches at the tip. It’s main function
is to transmit compression loads from the standing rigging into the hull
via the bitts. If you mounted it all by itself there might be a very little
bit of flex were you to stand on the end and jump. With all the stays in
place that puppy isn’t going anywhere with the loads a human body is likely
to put on it. That stick, she bend mon, but she doan break. Just to
illustrate the strength in that little toothpick. My boat cradle is made of
solid 6x6 inch douglas fir timbers.
Any two of the six cross members are strong enough to support the 10,000
pound bare hull with less than two inches of deformity.

But I dunno if I’d want to WALK out on the sprit. I’ll be
weaving a rope basket from the whisker stays to brace both feet in while I
sit on the sprit.

Carefully consider the wisdom of a wooden deck overlay on the
fiberglass deck. The traditional way to do it is to drill thousands of
holes in your previously watertight deck and seal them in bedding compound
when you screw the plank in place. If water finds a way into your plywood
core and you don’t find it in time you’ve got problems. The goughn brothers
have a method of using thin teak strips epoxied in place which I have not
seriously looked at. But I have read that over time you can hollystone (yet
another can of worms, see below) your way right through these strips over
time.

A wooden deck is a high maintenance item period. Larry Pardey
recommends a daily salt water dousing on a bare teak deck at sunset to keep
the grain tight. If you scrub the wood with a brush you will dig out the
soft summer grain creating unsightly dirt catching ridges. The deck
requires periodic scrubbing with a plastic woven dish scrubby (or
hollystone…the traditional tool) Periodic sanding will be required as the
wood weathers and wears. We’re talking a labor of love here and there is
nothing sorrier looking than a wooden deck that has been neglected. So just
seal it with clear epoxy/varnish/cetol. Now you have eliminated the most
attractive feature of a bare teak deck…it’s traction is unsurpassed, and
created a surface which will be dangerous when wet unless you added sand to
your sealer or lay down a traction product. So why bother with a teak deck
if you are going to do that? I’ve actually heard of folks who bought a
handiman’s delight with a neglected teak overlay. The first thing they did
was strip it off and take on the gargantuan task of sealing every one of
the thousands of holes in the fiberglass deck underneath. What you will be
facing after the “new” has worn off…

If she big enough for five? Depends on how cozy your family is. Dave and
Jaja Martin circumnavigated in a Cal 25 suffering only one serious gear
failure in the birth control department…they had three children along
the way. (laughing out loud…think carefully about that) They have
expanded their accomodations to a thirty footer and are back out there
somewhere right now.

I’m struggling with a workable interior layout right now. If you find one
let me know. One thing Roger said to me might be applicable. He was poking
fun at some of ways things had been done on board Seraffyn, pointing out
how awkward something was to actually use. He made the very wise
observation that rather than change the offensive system, Lin & Larry had
simply adapted to it and never gotten around to fixing it the whole time
they owned Seraffyn. For that matter, neither had any of the following
owners…including Roger. It’s one thing to play with layouts on paper or
make cardboard cutouts to place in the bare cabin. But another thing
entirely after you’ve got blood sweat and dollar equity in a layout you’ve
bet the bank on. So maybe the layout isn’t such a big deal after all unless
it is one that I didn’t plan (grinning).

Regards

Donald Kircher / Kokopelli

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4

John,

I have to echo the comments of Debbie Smith.

Decks - I see no advantage to teak decks. Yes, they add a nice touch but
the maintenance and expense far outweigh the appearance.

Cockpit - Close, but no problems (I have to compare it to a Catalina 30,
the only other boat I have owned). We set up small cushions that lace to
each of the gallows stanchions and the person “on watch” usually sits to
the leeward and leans against that cushion. The wind vane, jibsheet and
mainsheet are right at hand. (OK, you do have to get up to reach the
staysail sheet - 3 out of 4 ain’t bad!) 4 adults in the cockpit when
anchored or coastal cruising isn’t a problem either.

Bowsprit strength - If you look at how the sprit is rigged, most of the
loads are taken by the bobstay, whisker stays, and forestay/backstay. - and
they are plenty strong! The other significant load is compression on the
bowsprit itself, the easiest for it to withstand. Bottom line - no sweat!!
But, to answer your other question, I think there is a type of pulpit that
fits onto the end of the sprit, but it doesn’t have the “gangplank” like
the Wetsnail.

Space for family - Like Debbie, we too have cruised with “full-size” adults
(4 in our case) on longer trips - 300 miles and 600+ miles, and we are
still close friends. It does require accommodation, some of which would
not be required within a family group. As I mentioned above, I used to
have a Catalina 30 (nick-named both “Moby-Cat” and “Jonah” - is there a
clue in there!!!), and no, there isn’t that kind of space below.

Double space - For implied activities, it is close, but it works. And no,
I don’t think it will end the marriage. We made a cockpit bed, and on hot,
stuff nights, that solves heat and ventilation problems also.

Pilot Berth - I’ve slept in it and at 5’10 and 175#, I don’t have any problems
(other than getting out in a hurry when that boat dragged down on us!) A small
fan at the head of the berth helps in hot weather.

Crealock 34 comparison - Let me preface this response by saying I’ve never been
on a Crealock 34 - but I do have a data point. The first owner of our BCC (#95)
now has one, and he has said several times that he wished he had not sold the
BCC. His family expanded to 4 and he felt he needed more room. He says that he
has a little more elbow room, but in his opinion, not really enough to justify
the extra expense. He has had some mechanical problems with the boat. However,
it is important to mention that he is not the first owner and there is a good
chance that the problems he is experiencing are traceable to the first owner.

Hope I’ve added a few answers. Good luck

Tom Walker
Aloha
BCC #95
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: [bcc] Opinions from Owners
Author: jkane@uoft02.utoledo.edu at SMTPGATE
Date: 1/20/99 17:37

I have enjoyed the recent flurry of questions and answers coming from all of
you experienced owners. So, I came up with some myself. 1. If buying new,
would you specify wooden decks? Why or why not? 2. Is the BCC flush deck
cockpit enjoyable enough for cruising, it looks exhausting? Are the cockpit
combing boards high enough and comfortable enough for leaning back on?
3. The bowsprit looks too flimsey to walk out on, has anyone added a pullpit
on the bowsprit like a Westsail 32? Does it make sense, or just detract from
the beauty. 4. I have a family of five. Is the BCC big enough (I have
only seen pictures) to accomodate five for limited cruising and weekend
excursions. 5. Is the “double berth” big enough for a married couple, or
will that end the marriage? 6. I have thought about port and starboard
quarter berths with the sink and range across from each other like on the
Falmouth Cutter, but with a pilot berth and two seatee berths. Would this
work out? Has anyone tried it? 7. Used as a pilot berth, is the pilot
berth big enough for a slim, 5’9" teenager to sleep on? 8. As the Sam Morse
Home Page obviously compares the BCC to a Crealock 34 for a size comparison,
if you were to buy new, would you buy the Crealock 34 or the BCC 28? So many
questions come to mind. Thank you all for your answers. John

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5

John,

All good questions!

  1. I love the look of teak decks, but echo the thoughts already
    expressed regarding maintenance, weight, and possible leaks. An additional
    issue is heat. If you’re cruising the tropics, teak decks become too hot to
    walk on, and retain the heat after sun down.

  2. I’ve sailed/cruised on many other boats and I don’t find the BCC
    cockpit to be ergonomically inferior nor superior. During the day, I sit
    with my back to the leward gallows post (with a type IV cussion) and steer
    with my feet. It’s a very comfortable position and gives good visibility
    forward, under the jib. On night watches, I stretch out across the bridge
    deck (I’m 6’2"). I keep a 10 minute countdown timer going and do a 360 deg
    check on that interval.

  3. The bowsprit is not at all flimsy. It handles huge normal and
    compressive loads imposed by the genoa. You can jump up and down on it with
    no perception of any deflection. Trust me - it’s tough! SLM do offer a
    stainless pulpit (option?). I don’t believe it’s intended to provide any
    structural benefit (I’d bet it actually weakens the member by introducing
    additional screw holes). It’s matter of personal aesthetics - I don’t like
    it, but then again, I don’t have any lifelines either…

  4. Five… Hummm. On the surface of it, I’d say it sounds a little
    tight. But it depends on the age of the children and the climate in which
    you sail. As a young child, I sometimes slept on deck, but that was the
    Mediterranean in summer.

  5. Can’t comment - I have a non-standard interior. We have the
    standard main bulkhead position (just fwd of the mast), and have an offset
    double bunk forward with an insert. I’d say we had more space than a
    standard double size bed (except for the feet).

  6. I don’t see why this wouldn’t work. You lose galley counter space.
    I think the area to port of the engine is just storage.

  7. Again, I’m non-standard.

  8. I’d buy a BCC. It’s in a aesthetic class of it’s own. I just don’t
    find the PS34 or the WS32 particularly appealing. They’re all strong boats,
    but for me, I weigh quality and then looks above everything else.

Regards,

Jeremy Waters

-----Original Message-----
From: jkane@uoft02.utoledo.edu [SMTP:jkane@uoft02.utoledo.edu ]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 5:37 PM
To: bcc@egroups.com
Subject: [bcc] Opinions from Owners

I have enjoyed the recent flurry of questions and answers coming
from all of
you experienced owners. So, I came up with some myself. 1. If
buying new,
would you specify wooden decks? Why or why not? 2. Is the BCC
flush deck
cockpit enjoyable enough for cruising, it looks exhausting? Are the
cockpit
combing boards high enough and comfortable enough for leaning back
on?
3. The bowsprit looks too flimsey to walk out on, has anyone added
a pullpit
on the bowsprit like a Westsail 32? Does it make sense, or just
detract from
the beauty. 4. I have a family of five. Is the BCC big enough (I
have
only seen pictures) to accomodate five for limited cruising and
weekend
excursions. 5. Is the “double berth” big enough for a married
couple, or
will that end the marriage? 6. I have thought about port and
starboard
quarter berths with the sink and range across from each other like
on the
Falmouth Cutter, but with a pilot berth and two seatee berths.
Would this
work out? Has anyone tried it? 7. Used as a pilot berth, is the
pilot
berth big enough for a slim, 5’9" teenager to sleep on? 8. As the
Sam Morse
Home Page obviously compares the BCC to a Crealock 34 for a size
comparison,
if you were to buy new, would you buy the Crealock 34 or the BCC 28?
So many
questions come to mind. Thank you all for your answers. John

HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? How does a 2.9% intro APR Visa sound?
Transfer your balances from other high rate credit cards and save!
Learn more at: http://offers.egroups.com/click/204/1

Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com

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6

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From: Tristan,
To: INTERNET:bcc@egroups.com , INTERNET:bcc@egroups.com

Date: 1/21/99 1:27 AM

RE: [bcc] Opinions from Owners

Message text written by INTERNET:bcc@egroups.com

I have enjoyed the recent flurry of questions and answers coming from all
of
you experienced owners. So, I came up with some myself. 1. If buying
new,
would you specify wooden decks? Why or why not? 2. Is the BCC flush deck
cockpit enjoyable enough for cruising, it looks exhausting? Are the
cockpit
combing boards high enough and comfortable enough for leaning back on?
3. The bowsprit looks too flimsey to walk out on, has anyone added a
pullpit
on the bowsprit like a Westsail 32? Does it make sense, or just detract
from
the beauty. 4. I have a family of five. Is the BCC big enough (I have
only seen pictures) to accomodate five for limited cruising and weekend
excursions. 5. Is the “double berth” big enough for a married couple, or
will that end the marriage? 6. I have thought about port and starboard
quarter berths with the sink and range across from each other like on the
Falmouth Cutter, but with a pilot berth and two seatee berths. Would this
work out? Has anyone tried it? 7. Used as a pilot berth, is the pilot
berth big enough for a slim, 5’9" teenager to sleep on? 8. As the Sam
Morse
Home Page obviously compares the BCC to a Crealock 34 for a size
comparison,
if you were to buy new, would you buy the Crealock 34 or the BCC 28? So
many
questions come to mind. Thank you all for your answers. John

<

Hi John!

One thing I can tell you about first hand is the bow sprit.
It is built of 3-4 pieces of vertical grain douglass fir glued together
with resorcinol which makes it stronger than a solid timber. It is roughly
6x6 at the butt and tapers to 2 3/4 inches at the tip. It’s main function
is to transmit compression loads from the standing rigging into the hull
via the bitts. If you mounted it all by itself there might be a very little
bit of flex were you to stand on the end and jump. With all the stays in
place that puppy isn’t going anywhere with the loads a human body is likely
to put on it. That stick, she bend mon, but she doan break. Just to
illustrate the strength in that little toothpick. My boat cradle is made of
solid 6x6 inch douglas fir timbers.
Any two of the six cross members are strong enough to support the 10,000
pound bare hull with less than two inches of deformity.

But I dunno if I’d want to WALK out on the sprit. I’ll be
weaving a rope basket from the whisker stays to brace both feet in while I
sit on the sprit.

Carefully consider the wisdom of a wooden deck overlay on the
fiberglass deck. The traditional way to do it is to drill thousands of
holes in your previously watertight deck and seal them in bedding compound
when you screw the plank in place. If water finds a way into your plywood
core and you don’t find it in time you’ve got problems. The goughn brothers
have a method of using thin teak strips epoxied in place which I have not
seriously looked at. But I have read that over time you can hollystone (yet
another can of worms, see below) your way right through these strips over
time.

A wooden deck is a high maintenance item period. Larry Pardey
recommends a daily salt water dousing on a bare teak deck at sunset to keep
the grain tight. If you scrub the wood with a brush you will dig out the
soft summer grain creating unsightly dirt catching ridges. The deck
requires periodic scrubbing with a plastic woven dish scrubby (or
hollystone…the traditional tool) Periodic sanding will be required as the
wood weathers and wears. We’re talking a labor of love here and there is
nothing sorrier looking than a wooden deck that has been neglected. So just
seal it with clear epoxy/varnish/cetol. Now you have eliminated the most
attractive feature of a bare teak deck…it’s traction is unsurpassed, and
created a surface which will be dangerous when wet unless you added sand to
your sealer or lay down a traction product. So why bother with a teak deck
if you are going to do that? I’ve actually heard of folks who bought a
handiman’s delight with a neglected teak overlay. The first thing they did
was strip it off and take on the gargantuan task of sealing every one of
the thousands of holes in the fiberglass deck underneath. What you will be
facing after the “new” has worn off…

If she big enough for five? Depends on how cozy your family is. Dave and
Jaja Martin circumnavigated in a Cal 25 suffering only one serious gear
failure in the birth control department…they had three children along
the way. (laughing out loud…think carefully about that) They have
expanded their accomodations to a thirty footer and are back out there
somewhere right now.

I’m struggling with a workable interior layout right now. If you find one
let me know. One thing Roger said to me might be applicable. He was poking
fun at some of ways things had been done on board Seraffyn, pointing out
how awkward something was to actually use. He made the very wise
observation that rather than change the offensive system, Lin & Larry had
simply adapted to it and never gotten around to fixing it the whole time
they owned Seraffyn. For that matter, neither had any of the following
owners…including Roger. It’s one thing to play with layouts on paper or
make cardboard cutouts to place in the bare cabin. But another thing
entirely after you’ve got blood sweat and dollar equity in a layout you’ve
bet the bank on. So maybe the layout isn’t such a big deal after all unless
it is one that I didn’t plan (grinning).

Regards

Donald Kircher / Kokopelli

Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com

7

Message text written by INTERNET:bcc@egroups.com

  1. Can’t comment - I have a non-standard interior. We have the
    standard main bulkhead position (just fwd of the mast), and have an offset
    double bunk forward with an insert. I’d say we had more space than a
    standard double size bed (except for the feet).
    <

Jeremy! Buddy! Pal!

PLEASE, could you go into more detail on your non-standard interior with
the main bulkhead in the
standard position? Where do you run in your anchor chain, and how do you
get it into it’s resting place without making a mess. Tell me more about
the bunk insert.

I really wanted to implement the full taleisin interior including the flush
bridge deck hatch, but I keep running into the pinched BCC bow and how to
get 300 feet of anchor chain below without trashing the joint.

What does your interior look like aft of the main bulkhead? How well does
it work and what would you do different if you were building it today?

Thanks

Donald Kircher / Kokopelli

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