Re: Fw: UL and (or) Coast Guard Approved

my understanding is that uscg approved lights or some other equipment (fuel
filters for example) are only required on inspected (essentially passenger)
vessels. us pleasure boaters could used trained fireflies or table lamps if
they meet the visibility requirements.
john churchill

Steven Osborne wrote:

The following is the answer I got from Deep Creek Technical Support on the
issue
of UL or Coast Guard approval for their solid state navlight replacement
bulbs.
s.o.

From Deep Creek Technical Support

Normally, a marine navigation light does not require UL approval.
Rather, it is built to other, actually more strict standards, such as
AYBC,
CIE, COLREGS, & ect. The nav lights we build are not certified by any
authority at this time for several reasons, the foremost being that the
way
the procedure is written at this time, as it was written for incandescent
bulbs that generate a lot of heat, a “bulb” or “lamp” must be certified
with
the fixture for which it was designed. This means that we would have to
limit
our products only to certain fixtures, and they would not be retrofitable
to
any others. That is the way it is now with regular bulbs; if you put an
Aqua
Signal bulb in a Perko fixture, you decertify the light. This will change,
(is
slowly already) as the new technology catches on, but it is going to take
a
while. The other reason has to do with pulse driving leds. We selected the
pulse drive system that we use to power the led array for a lot of
reasons, it
doesn’t make any heat, it is very efficient, it can safely power the
leds at
a higher luminosity than a resistive circuit without over driving them, it
is
very robust, and, if the frequency of the duty cycle is selected
correctly, it
can ‘fool’ the eye into thinking the leds are brighter than they really
are,
because the neurons in the visual system don’t get a chance to tell the
brain
the light has shut off, before it turns on again, so the observer never
notices the missing light. The battery sees less power drain, though, a
lot
less, and that is why we like this approach. The result is a light that
has
the visibility of a much brighter light, for less power. The down side, as
far
as certification goes, is that because the AVERAGE intensity is less than
a
similarly bright continuously on light with the same (enough to certifiy)
visibility, the pulse driven model does not have enough average ftcdl to
certify unless you make it appear to be MUCH brighter than the
continuously on
bulb. This would be acceptable, if we could get them certified anyway,
which
we can’t. So, what we are going to do, is design the next model, which
will be
mass produced, and which we are presently working on, to compromise
between
saving power and having a good average intensity. We will smooth out the
pulse
somewhat, reducing the peak and increasing the average. This will mean
that it
will probably use a little more power than the MKII for the same
brightness or
maybe be a little brighter. The MKII draws 90-100ma in an anchor light and
has
the visibility of a 15-20 watt bulb, and the MKIII will use a little more
power and have enough ftcdl to certify, while being the brightest
certifiable
light for its power consumption possible. It will also have the built in
day
sensor, be bi polar, and it will operate on either 12 or 24 volts, the
last
being a further improvement over the MKII. We are already working on
getting
the major manufactures to certify it and offer it as there own name
optional
retrofit bulb. All this takes time, so in the meantime, it will still be
an
uncertified replacement bulb. However, our present model, the MKII
FirstStar
anchor light, is around eight times as bright as the mini amp mega light
that
so many people use, or about as bright as a 15-20 watt regular bulb, and
yet
the MKII F/S has about the same power consumption as the mini amp mega
light,
and it will stay bright all the way down to around 8vdc. So, even though
the
F/S MKII is not a certified light, the led approach is a lot more
visibility
per A/H, as well as being more reliable. For stock lights, we allow a 30
day
trial period. If you don’t think it is bright enough, you may send it back
for
a refund. People seem satisfied so far. This applies to all our nav
lights,
not just the anchor light. I have built side lights that blasted out 80
ftcdl,
more light than a 60 watt bulb! They used 4-5watts and hurt your eyes from
20
feet away. Not certified, though.
UL approval could apply to cabin lighting. Our light makes almost no heat,
and
all of our MKII drivers use a special over voltage protection circuit that
incorporates an internal automatically resettable fuse, so the boat
wiring is
much better protected using our retrofit StarChips cabin light than with a
normal bulb. No heat, built in fuse. BTW…how many 12vdc boat lights have
you
seen that are UL approved? I don’t recall any. Heat is the big bugaboo, as
halogen lamps can get quite hot. With a StarChips 48 light, you get as
much
light where you want it as with a 9w florescent light, for 1/2-1/3 the
power.
An optional dimmer can be ordered to shorten the pulse width and dim the
leds
without wasting power. In my boat, this is not an option, as the 48 white
model is too bright most of the time, but at the same time, when I need
the
extra light, I’ve got it.
Sorry this is so long, it is hard to answer a question like this
accurately
without going into some detail, and I do have a tendency to ‘preach’ about
the
benefits of leds!-Ken

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
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The following is the answer I got from Deep Creek Technical Support on the
issue
of UL or Coast Guard approval for their solid state navlight replacement
bulbs.
s.o.

From Deep Creek Technical Support

Normally, a marine navigation light does not require UL approval.
Rather, it is built to other, actually more strict standards, such as
AYBC,
CIE, COLREGS, & ect. The nav lights we build are not certified by any
authority at this time for several reasons, the foremost being that the
way
the procedure is written at this time, as it was written for incandescent
bulbs that generate a lot of heat, a “bulb” or “lamp” must be certified
with
the fixture for which it was designed. This means that we would have to
limit
our products only to certain fixtures, and they would not be retrofitable
to
any others. That is the way it is now with regular bulbs; if you put an
Aqua
Signal bulb in a Perko fixture, you decertify the light. This will change,
(is
slowly already) as the new technology catches on, but it is going to take
a
while. The other reason has to do with pulse driving leds. We selected the
pulse drive system that we use to power the led array for a lot of
reasons, it
doesn’t make any heat, it is very efficient, it can safely power the
leds at
a higher luminosity than a resistive circuit without over driving them, it
is
very robust, and, if the frequency of the duty cycle is selected
correctly, it
can ‘fool’ the eye into thinking the leds are brighter than they really
are,
because the neurons in the visual system don’t get a chance to tell the
brain
the light has shut off, before it turns on again, so the observer never
notices the missing light. The battery sees less power drain, though, a
lot
less, and that is why we like this approach. The result is a light that
has
the visibility of a much brighter light, for less power. The down side, as
far
as certification goes, is that because the AVERAGE intensity is less than
a
similarly bright continuously on light with the same (enough to certifiy)
visibility, the pulse driven model does not have enough average ftcdl to
certify unless you make it appear to be MUCH brighter than the
continuously on
bulb. This would be acceptable, if we could get them certified anyway,
which
we can’t. So, what we are going to do, is design the next model, which
will be
mass produced, and which we are presently working on, to compromise
between
saving power and having a good average intensity. We will smooth out the
pulse
somewhat, reducing the peak and increasing the average. This will mean
that it
will probably use a little more power than the MKII for the same
brightness or
maybe be a little brighter. The MKII draws 90-100ma in an anchor light and
has
the visibility of a 15-20 watt bulb, and the MKIII will use a little more
power and have enough ftcdl to certify, while being the brightest
certifiable
light for its power consumption possible. It will also have the built in
day
sensor, be bi polar, and it will operate on either 12 or 24 volts, the
last
being a further improvement over the MKII. We are already working on
getting
the major manufactures to certify it and offer it as there own name
optional
retrofit bulb. All this takes time, so in the meantime, it will still be
an
uncertified replacement bulb. However, our present model, the MKII
FirstStar
anchor light, is around eight times as bright as the mini amp mega light
that
so many people use, or about as bright as a 15-20 watt regular bulb, and
yet
the MKII F/S has about the same power consumption as the mini amp mega
light,
and it will stay bright all the way down to around 8vdc. So, even though
the
F/S MKII is not a certified light, the led approach is a lot more
visibility
per A/H, as well as being more reliable. For stock lights, we allow a 30
day
trial period. If you don’t think it is bright enough, you may send it back
for
a refund. People seem satisfied so far. This applies to all our nav
lights,
not just the anchor light. I have built side lights that blasted out 80
ftcdl,
more light than a 60 watt bulb! They used 4-5watts and hurt your eyes from
20
feet away. Not certified, though.
UL approval could apply to cabin lighting. Our light makes almost no heat,
and
all of our MKII drivers use a special over voltage protection circuit that
incorporates an internal automatically resettable fuse, so the boat
wiring is
much better protected using our retrofit StarChips cabin light than with a
normal bulb. No heat, built in fuse. BTW…how many 12vdc boat lights have
you
seen that are UL approved? I don’t recall any. Heat is the big bugaboo, as
halogen lamps can get quite hot. With a StarChips 48 light, you get as
much
light where you want it as with a 9w florescent light, for 1/2-1/3 the
power.
An optional dimmer can be ordered to shorten the pulse width and dim the
leds
without wasting power. In my boat, this is not an option, as the 48 white
model is too bright most of the time, but at the same time, when I need
the
extra light, I’ve got it.
Sorry this is so long, it is hard to answer a question like this
accurately
without going into some detail, and I do have a tendency to ‘preach’ about
the
benefits of leds!-Ken

John,

I agree, but someone earlier today had commented that Deep Creek’s lights
were not UL or Coast Guard approved.
I sent them a email to verify the comment.

Steve

Steve:
I made the reply not as a "negative" but as a datum point to consider, if one should decide to purchase these lights - no more and no less.  I know Ken James personally and respect him very much but we live in a unique time in terms of litigation  and insurance claims in our society.
 
Rod Bruckdorfer 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Fw: UL and (or) Coast Guard Approved

John,

I agree, but someone earlier today had commented that Deep Creek's lights
were not UL or Coast Guard approved.
I sent them a email to verify the comment.

Steve



BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
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