Rudders

Rod, are you having rudder problems?
Roger had a mahogony rudder made for his new Bcc.

Doug, of Bcc “Puffin” had Larry build a wooden rudder for him, seems
he had problems with the Foss Foam factory installed one.

Is neutral bouyancy a problem with a wooden rudder?

Calliste’s Foss Foam rudder has two small blisters on it, and I have
been thinking of making a new one of wood.

Any other rudder / tiller knowledge out there ?

I have a wooden rudder on Mintaka II, a Vancouver built BCC. During a
bit of a blow in a lagoon, at anchor, she bumped on a coral head. The
only apparent damage was chipping the bottom paint. However, about a
year later when hauled for bottom painting (1994)I discovered
toredoes had bored up into the wood and had to have a piece of wood
about 1.5 inched by 10 inches replaced. At the same time I had a
heavy bronze plate attached to the bottom of the keel to protect the
paint from any future bottom bumps. Have had no problem since.
Bouyancy has never been a problem; I suspect because the transom is
nearly vertical.

Cheers,
Gary Alpaugh
Mintaka II

I’ve had lots of problems with the Foss Foam rudder that was provided with
my BCC, Caylin #94. After only two years, I had numerous osmotic blisters
on the rudder. My first treatment was to grind out all the blisters and
treat the rudder with multiple coats of West Systems epoxy. This work for a
while, but the blisters began appearing again. This Spring I hauled Caylin
and had numerous small blisters on both the rudder and hull. I opted for
the radical treatment and had the entire gel coat sandblasted off below the
waterline. After letting the hull dry out for nine weeks, lots of filling
and fairing was done with the 3M vinyl ester structural filler. We then
sprayed on several coats of the Duratech vinylester resin. The bottom came
out looking like new. Duratech has a good track record, and hopefully this
will cure the blister problem. During this process, I made several calls
and sent several e-mails to the Sam L. Morse Company to get information on
the wooden rudder which is available. Unfortunately Roger was off sailing
to Mexico at this time and Sumio never got back to me on the price or
availability of the wooden rudder. Time got short so I used a gel coat
stripper to remove the West Systems epoxy and gel coat from the rudder and
simply filled and faired with a substantial amount of the 3M filler. I’ll
see how this holds up. If it doesn’t, I’m planning on replacing it with the
wooden rudder if I can ever get the information from Sam L. Morse Company.
Anyone out there know who builds it? Is it Sam L. Morse? I like to know.
Geary Smith
----- Original Message -----
From: <dwkayaks@spiderweb.com.au >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 2:53 PM
Subject: [bcc] Rudders

Rod, are you having rudder problems?
Roger had a mahogony rudder made for his new Bcc.

Doug, of Bcc “Puffin” had Larry build a wooden rudder for him, seems
he had problems with the Foss Foam factory installed one.

Is neutral bouyancy a problem with a wooden rudder?

Calliste’s Foss Foam rudder has two small blisters on it, and I have
been thinking of making a new one of wood.

Any other rudder / tiller knowledge out there ?

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I have a mahogany rudder on Calypso. It is epoxy sealed. To guard against
borers, I applied a few layers of fiberglass to the bottom and faired it it.

Regards,
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: ggalpaugh@yahoo.com [mailto:ggalpaugh@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 8:17 PM
To: bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bcc] Re: Rudders

I have a wooden rudder on Mintaka II, a Vancouver built BCC. During a
bit of a blow in a lagoon, at anchor, she bumped on a coral head. The
only apparent damage was chipping the bottom paint. However, about a
year later when hauled for bottom painting (1994)I discovered
toredoes had bored up into the wood and had to have a piece of wood
about 1.5 inched by 10 inches replaced. At the same time I had a
heavy bronze plate attached to the bottom of the keel to protect the
paint from any future bottom bumps. Have had no problem since.
Bouyancy has never been a problem; I suspect because the transom is
nearly vertical.

Cheers,
Gary Alpaugh
Mintaka II

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
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T Y Geary, for your info on rudder blisters and gelcoat problems, I
would like to understand more, about your choices on vinylester
verses epoxy.

As for Roger’s mahogony rudder, I got to see it just after
installation, at the yard. As a former woodworker, I was disappointed
to see the rudder made of large width flat grain planks, that weren’t
laid up alternating the bark side.

Larry’s book “Wooden Boat Construction” gives details on how to
properly construct a rudder. He describes the need to use quarter
sawn planks, he also describes alternating the “bark side” of the
planks when flat grain is used. The reason is to reduce warp and
cupping of the rudder blade.

Although I don’t have the book with me, I suspect it also may discuss
the milling of the edge glue joints to ease the tension on the glue
line when moisture increases at the bottom plank ends.

As for the responce from Gary of Bcc Mintaka II, didn’t I meet you in
Tutukaka ? How was the Gambier Islands ? Was your rudder coated with
creasote before bottom paint? Would the Toredo worms still get
through a creasote base coat surface?

I am really interested in the Bronze shoe, you installed on your
keel. How did you attach it, could it be used for a radio ground too.
The rudder bouyancy becomes an issue when sailing, and healed over.
Seems too much or too little bouyancy will create heaps of weather
helm, so a neutrally bouyant rudder is most desireable.

Douglas, S/V Calliste

Hi Douglas,
I don’t remember meeting you and I haven’t been to Gambier.
I don’t think my rudder had been creosoted but I’m the second owner
and am not sure. The bronze shoe is quite a heavy piece, about 3/8
inches thick, and was installed by a shipwright who did the repairs
to the rudder. I think he bedded it with 5200 and used large, long
bronze screws. It has never budged.
I don’t think it would be a good ground. Too small and you would have
the problem of hooking it up. I don’t have a HF radio, but if I ever
install one I’ll install a bronze plate on the bottom of the hull. I
met a boat (Rainbow Chaser, a Tayana 37) with a 1x2 foot bronze plate
for a ground and it works great. Also used as a lightning ground.

Gary, Mintaka II

As for the responce from Gary of Bcc Mintaka II, didn’t I meet you
in
Tutukaka ? How was the Gambier Islands ? Was your rudder coated
with
creasote before bottom paint? Would the Toredo worms still get
through a creasote base coat surface?

I am really interested in the Bronze shoe, you installed on your
keel. How did you attach it, could it be used for a radio ground
too.
The rudder bouyancy becomes an issue when sailing, and healed over.
Seems too much or too little bouyancy will create heaps of weather
helm, so a neutrally bouyant rudder is most desireable.

Douglas, S/V Calliste

I have knocked that idea for a metal shoe on the keel about myself. One of
the design flaws
in the BCC was making the rudder mounting flush with the keel line. It is
pleasing to the eye but leaves the rudder and bottom gudgeon exposed to
damage in a grounding. This was corrected when Lyle drew the plans for
Taleisin. The rudder is offset by a few inches up the stern post. My thought
was to place a wedge shaped piece of metal or sacrificial deadwood on the
keel. Thick at the heel and tapering toward the bow to provide some precious
breathing room for the rudder.

My own wooden rudder was built using Larry Pardey’s “Classic Boat
Construction” as a guide. It consists of three vertical wooden planks
(mahogany) 2 1/2 inches thick glued together with resorcinol and pinned
through with 3/8 " internal bronze drifts then externally held together with
two copper straps which are through-bolted in place. Pardey added the strap
to his rudder later as a remedy to fix warping. You are kidding yourself if
you believe that the
glue is enough to hold things together. John Churchill took some photos of
Pardey’s twenty year old black locust rudder and you can see daylight
between the planks. The mechanical fasteners are the only thing holding it
together.

Sadly, I was unable to obtain creosote to seal my rudder against wood
borers. In it’s place I soaked the wood below the waterline with CPES in the
hope that this would be enough till I can obtain creosote outside the USA.

I have sheathed the end grain on the trailing edge of the rudder with a
piece of heavy gauge copper sheet. It is held in place with nails and 3M
5200 and will also do it’s bit to help hold the planks together.

How long is your bronze shoe? Does it run the entire length of the keel?
Having purchased copper and bronze I can only imagine what that must have
cost.

----- Original Message -----
From: <ggalpaugh@yahoo.com >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 2:14 PM
Subject: [bcc] Re: Rudders

Hi Douglas,
I don’t remember meeting you and I haven’t been to Gambier.
I don’t think my rudder had been creosoted but I’m the second owner
and am not sure. The bronze shoe is quite a heavy piece, about 3/8
inches thick, and was installed by a shipwright who did the repairs
to the rudder. I think he bedded it with 5200 and used large, long
bronze screws. It has never budged.
I don’t think it would be a good ground. Too small and you would have
the problem of hooking it up. I don’t have a HF radio, but if I ever
install one I’ll install a bronze plate on the bottom of the hull. I
met a boat (Rainbow Chaser, a Tayana 37) with a 1x2 foot bronze plate
for a ground and it works great. Also used as a lightning ground.

Gary, Mintaka II

As for the responce from Gary of Bcc Mintaka II, didn’t I meet you
in
Tutukaka ? How was the Gambier Islands ? Was your rudder coated
with
creasote before bottom paint? Would the Toredo worms still get
through a creasote base coat surface?

I am really interested in the Bronze shoe, you installed on your
keel. How did you attach it, could it be used for a radio ground
too.
The rudder bouyancy becomes an issue when sailing, and healed over.
Seems too much or too little bouyancy will create heaps of weather
helm, so a neutrally bouyant rudder is most desireable.

Douglas, S/V Calliste

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Home page: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
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