Wood/Epoxy Glue Joint Failure

BCC Forum
1

From “Details of Classic Boat Construction - the Hull,” Pardey’s
report (http://www.paracay.com ):

“What we found is that epoxy formulators have been covering up the
problems associated with using this product as a glue, especially for
wood to wood adhering, be it interior trim, cutting boards, toerails
or hatches. Just as with osmosis, consumers who had glue failures or
delaminations were told, “isolated incident, you probably mixed it
wrong, don’t worry.” We have suspected there were problems with
epoxies but had a hard time getting others to back us up (and we must
admit, we did not want to stop cruising to do the real research
necessary, so had to do it piece meal). But last winter we went to
visit several experts on this subject, people who work for
governmental agencies, not glue makers or sales people. They not only
gave us scientific proof and data to back us up, but encourages us to
have the nerve to put it all down on paper and let the flack fly
where it may. We also had the good fortune to visit John Guzzwell,
who is known for his integrity as a boat builder and add his
suggestions to this section (and photos) and met Micheal Heine, an
attorney who specializes in ship and boat building contract law who
vetted the appendix to assure it was accurate but left no room for
litigation. This was important as it is not what the epoxy promoters
want to see in print, not something that magazine editors can afford
to print, not a popular message. We hope it gets out to enough people
to open the discussion of adhesives we should all be using to build
boats, boat parts and spars. There are definitely better adhesives
than epoxy to use around the very corrosive salt water environment,
ones that are truly waterproof, fatigue resistant and good for long
term, exterior exposure. It our appendix helps even a few people
avoid delaminated boats or boat parts, it will have been
worthwhile.” - Lin and Larry Pardey

Has anyone experienced a failure in a wood/epoxy glue line?

An alternate adhesive to epoxy that Larry Pardey refers to is Aerodux
500, a resorcinol based adhesive - http://www.custompak.com (800-454-
4583). The product is a two part liquid system and is available with
either a medium or fast cure hardner. Product cost for a 1 quart kit
which makes ~2 quarts of adhesive is ~$60.

Rod Bruckdorfer
S/V IDUNA

2

How is it that the Pardeys get to have the last word in the highly
technical field of adhesives? I don’t really care whether they
contacted some “expert” to validate their suspicion, or got some
lawyer to vete their publication for the purpose of suit-proofing;
that is simply not the same thing as saying that the information
presented is reliable and worthwhile.

It would also appear they are implying that boatbuilders and epoxy
suppliers are generally without integrity… all except for one, that
is. If so, then it runs totally contrary to my perception. If I had
to pick one profession that is generally populated by knowledgeable,
honest, intelligent and hardworking people, it would be woodworking,
and wood boatbuilding specifically… definitely not lawyers.

I’m quite sure that white glue, yellow glue, urea resin, resorcinol,
and polyurethane glue (or whatever) are all appropriate in certain
situations, and I wouldn’t even be surprised if epoxy is both
over-used and mis-used. In fact, I’m sure that the wrong adhesive
gets used in the wrong way at the wrong time by many of us, both
amateur and professional.

I have no connection with the epoxy business and I have no conflict
of interest whatsoever. I am however familiar with the industrial
process, and know that successful manufacturers are constantly
tweaking their products to gain competitive advantage. There is no
reason that a good adhesive manufacturer would not switch to a better
performing formula if it were shown to be more effective in a given
situation. The adhesives business is no exception.

To speak of an industrial cover-up by the “epoxy manufacturers” (as
if they are some sort of cartel) is really beyond belief and can only
be understood in the context of their publisher’s search for
notoriety. The Pardeys should stick to cruising tips, or maybe even
just to cooking recipes. Their credibility just took a big dive with
me.

H.

From “Details of Classic Boat Construction - the Hull,” Pardey’s
report (http://www.paracay.com ):

“What we found is that epoxy formulators have been covering up the
problems associated with using this product as a glue, especially for
wood to wood adhering, be it interior trim, cutting boards, toerails
or hatches. Just as with osmosis, consumers who had glue failures or
delaminations were told, “isolated incident, you probably mixed it
wrong, don’t worry.” We have suspected there were problems with
epoxies but had a hard time getting others to back us up (and we must
admit, we did not want to stop cruising to do the real research
necessary, so had to do it piece meal). But last winter we went to
visit several experts on this subject, people who work for
governmental agencies, not glue makers or sales people. They not only
gave us scientific proof and data to back us up, but encourages us to
have the nerve to put it all down on paper and let the flack fly
where it may. We also had the good fortune to visit John Guzzwell,
who is known for his integrity as a boat builder and add his
suggestions to this section (and photos) and met Micheal Heine, an
attorney who specializes in ship and boat building contract law who
vetted the appendix to assure it was accurate but left no room for
litigation. This was important as it is not what the epoxy promoters
want to see in print, not something that magazine editors can afford
to print, not a popular message. We hope it gets out to enough people
to open the discussion of adhesives we should all be using to build
boats, boat parts and spars. There are definitely better adhesives
than epoxy to use around the very corrosive salt water environment,
ones that are truly waterproof, fatigue resistant and good for long
term, exterior exposure. It our appendix helps even a few people
avoid delaminated boats or boat parts, it will have been
worthwhile.” - Lin and Larry Pardey

Has anyone experienced a failure in a wood/epoxy glue line?

An alternate adhesive to epoxy that Larry Pardey refers to is Aerodux
500, a resorcinol based adhesive - http://www.custompak.com (800-454-
4583). The product is a two part liquid system and is available with
either a medium or fast cure hardner. Product cost for a 1 quart kit
which makes ~2 quarts of adhesive is ~$60.

Rod Bruckdorfer
S/V IDUNA

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
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