I am seriously considering replacing my aging Volvo with the new Yanmar 3YM30. Opinions? What reduction ratio should I be using? I am assuing 2.62 is how the factory is configuring new boats?
thanks!
First, welcome to the owner’s forum.
It probably is cheaper to replace the engine with the same make and model engine that is in the boat now.
If you repower with a another make and model engine, you may have to rework the engine beds to achieve shaft alignment and perhaps, install a new shaft and shaft log in the boat.
It may be cheaper to rebuild the Volvo engine than to purchase a new engine.
Rod
BCC IDUNA
I tend to agree with Rod, that rebuilding your old engine may be cheaper than re-powering with a new or other brand engine, at least in principal.
Case in point: We have a Ford/Lehman 80 hp diesel in our Pan Oceanic 46, it is a difficult installation at best, 4 humps built into the hull to serve as an engine bed. Therefore the logical choice was to rebuild the old ford, right? Ligic is, it came out, it will go back in, beats modifying everything, logic doesn’t always work.
When we disassembled the engine we noted that the reasons why the engine was frozen was the previous owner had flooded the engine compartment and the flywheel was lodged and virtually welded to the bellhousing/oil pan, the injection pump was also filled with old oil, varnish and rust, only part we could salvage was the housing.
We purchased a second engine for sheetmetal, oil pan and spare injection pump for parts. To make a long story short, the second engine cost $500, injection pump overhaul cost $2,000, total overhaul costs including outside maching work, but not including my labor, or rental of a shop space to rebuild it cost $9,000. Was it worth it, NOPE, never do it again. Esseentially what we have is a 22 year old block, crank, connecting rods and cam and a truck load of new parts. In other words, we still have a 22 year old engine, good as new, not hardly, parts are becoming harder to find and most are aftermarket. Runs great.
As it turned out, the original Borg/Warner transmission that came with the boat, which we overhauled at $1,000, thankfuly it was already in good shape, would have cost $8,000 to replace (obsolete and rare) from an East Coast shop. When reinstalling, we found the original engine package never did align, had problems since new. We sold our transmission and bought a new ZF gear to make the alignment possible at another $3,000.
Incidentially, the $12,000 we spent was the exact wholesale cost of a new Westerbeke Century Series engine. Oops. Lesson learned.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have bought a Westerbeke Century Series 80 hp engine, current production and techknology, easy to get parts, economical, and still the same slow turning engine at the same weight to keep the boat balanced.
Volvo is one of the worst manufactured engine on the market, over priced, antiquated parts systems, parts and service manuals are the pits, many 20+ year old volvos are surviving by vertue of recycling used parts at rediculus prices.
I’ve only ran into one 20+ year old Volvo, an MD6A, which started and ran like a swiss watch, only problem is, it is seawater cooled and the block is packed with salt and minerals. We are going to give an acid flush this week and see if we can keep from blowing a head gasket in the process.
We have rebuilt diesel engine since 1973, something we nolonger do, due to the high cost of outside machine work and parts, the cost is so close these days to a new engine, why bother. Most of the current engines, Yanmar, Universal and Westerbeke come so close to fitting with a little shimming or bracket work; considering most older boats need a new shaft, coupliing, cutlass bearing and prop, I’d just as soon replace them anyway.
Of the three, we service all, repair more Yanmars than Westerbeke and Universals diesels, the latter two tend to need less expensive repairs if maintained properly, run quieter and smoother. The Universals, Kubota diesel based, seem to be the most trouble free, intelegently designed and durable, if maintained properly. They are all good engines, some are better than others, we have a 3GM30F Yanmar in our BCC, when it dies, we will install a Universal. Our preferences are based on experience on installing and maintaining litteraly thousands of diesels.
When it comes to Volvo, most mechanics will tell you, “This dog don’t hunt.”
Marty Chin, BCC Shamrock.
BCC Forums bccforums@samlmorse.com wrote:
Author: IDUNA
Username: IDUNA
Subject: Re: Another Re-power question
Forum: BCC Forum
Link: http://www.samlmorse.com/forum/read.php?5,4177,4179#msg-4179
First, welcome to the owner’s forum.
It probably is cheaper to replace the engine with the same make and model engine that is in the boat now.
If you repower with a another make and model engine, you may have to rework the engine beds to achieve shaft alignment and perhaps, install a new shaft and shaft log in the boat.
It may be cheaper to rebuild the Volvo engine than to purchase a new engine.
Rod
BCC IDUNA
Marty:
Thanks for the insight into rebuilding an engine compared to replacing an engine.
IDUNA’s Sabb G engine was installed in 1983. The boat was cruised twice - 5 or 6 years by the second owner and 1 1/2 years by the third owner who also sailed the boat extensively during his 7 year ownership. We have no idea of the number of engine hours but I suspect it is in the thousands.
Although the Sabb G engine has a reputation for lasting “forever”, I have also considered replacing the engine with a “modern” engine of about 18 to 20 hp instead of rebuilding the engine should it ever need rebuilding.
Should I ever have to do major work on the engine, I will compare the total cost of rebuilding the engine compared to the total cost of replacing the engine. Total costs includes, haulout, storage time, yard labor, engine beds, prop shaft, prop, and shaft log. I am more inclined to replace the engine than rebuild but we “love” Thumper - IDUNA’s Sabb G engine.
Rod
Ah, yes, falling in love with these old thumper is not to hard to do. Westerbeke marinized a Sabb twin cylinder called a Pilot 50, think it was something around 15 hp @ 345 pounds, turned a wheel the size of the QE2 in a 79 Erickson 28. We can’t get secondary fuel filters for the engine anymore, no luck with our Westerbeke distributor (listed as totally obsolete-no parts and service available). This will make you nuts, did us, the we bought the last available secondary fuel filter, cartridge type, came without a bowl gasket, sells seperately, just so happens the gasket is no longer available. Sabb dealer never returned emails, wonder why?
With current engines, 345 pounds gets you around a 30hp engine rather than an older style 15. Without question, the older and slower turning engine will outlast the newer, faster turning engines, but lifespan is relative, if you use your boat recreationally, average usage is no more than 50 hours per year, average 3-4000 hours with the newer engines, 3000/50=60 years. On the extreme end, 250 hours/year=12 years, its fun to play with these numbers, in truth, last two years we only motored 24 hours. This year we have motorsailed more than we like, but it is good for the engine so we don’t mind, the more we run the Yanmar 3GM30F and the harder we run it, the better it runs.
We almost bought BCC Shatauqua from Cris and Dick Todd, they cruised for several years with a Sabb 10, admittly they told me they couldn’t get out of the slip if the winds were up, but it was helpful if caught in the high on flat seas, drank little fuel. Current owners, a young couple we met last year heading for Mexico has not had similar success with this engine, seems to have developed a fear of marina docks, they claim it will generally break down within a mile of the nearest dock, ain’t love grand. Probably has to do more with old fuel, lack of proper maintenance.
Everyone has different needs and I respect that, we on the otherhand can’t imagine driving a BCC with anything other than a 27 hp engine, she is just a heavy boat, when we motor its usually at hull speed. Think it is more a product of our diesel repair business, our boat is the last boat on the list before we cruise-out, last cruise out we started our pre-run check at 0500 on saturday and didn’t load up a depart until 1015. We may be last, but we are through, we have never had a recorded breakdown in 20 years.
Cheers,
Marty Chin
BCC Forums bccforums@samlmorse.com wrote:
Author: IDUNA
Username: IDUNA
Subject: Re: Another Re-power question
Forum: BCC Forum
Link: http://www.samlmorse.com/forum/read.php?5,4177,4187#msg-4187
Marty:
Thanks for the insight into rebuilding an engine compared to replacing an engine.
IDUNA’s Sabb G engine was installed in 1983. The boat was cruised twice - 5 or 6 years by the second owner and 1 1/2 years by the third owner who also sailed the boat extensively during his 7 year ownership. We have no idea of the number of engine hours but I suspect it is in the thousands.
Although the Sabb G engine has a reputation for lasting “forever”, I have also considered replacing the engine with a “modern” engine of about 18 to 20 hp instead of rebuilding the engine should it ever need rebuilding.
Should I ever have to do major work on the engine, I will compare the total cost of rebuilding the engine compared to the total cost of replacing the engine. Total costs includes, haulout, storage time, yard labor, engine beds, prop shaft, prop, and shaft log. I am more inclined to replace the engine than rebuild but we “love” Thumper - IDUNA’s Sabb G engine.
Rod
Marty:
I will be the first to admit, leaving the slip when the wind is across the beam, is interesting when the boat’s engine is rated at 10 hp. Rigging a spring lines seems to be the best approach for these wind conditions, especially when the wind is above 12 knots. We have not practiced using a spring line yet. Instead, we try to leave early in the morning before the wind freshens.
Our Sabb G engine, Thumper will push the boat at 5 plus knots in flat water, providing one sets the pitch of the prop correctly. I am just learning how to obtain the most out of the engine/prop configuration. Before, I was under pitching the controllable pitch prop. Granted 10 hp makes for slow going when motoring into steep chop but we seem to always make it out of the harbor and set the sails.
Thumper has a new liner, piston and head and starts instantly. Idle speed is 400 rpm and max cruising rpm is 1,800. The 17" wheel turns at half the engine rpm. Fuel consumption is about 0.4 gallons (1.5 l) per hour at 1,700 rpm. Parts are readily available from Sabb America in Florida. Bill Miller, who owns the company, provides excellent parts support. I suspect, Thumper will outlast both of us.
These old engine are fun but they are heavy and require greasing and oiling on a routine basis. Compared to a new engine, most people do not want to fuss with these old, slow running diesels. Modern engines have a significantly higher power-to-weight ratio, take up less space in the engine compartment and require less owner fuss. Still, the Sabb G engine has its merits and gives me something to do when motor. Thumper’s real plus for me is, I can rebuild the engine almost anywhere and we can hand-crank the engine in hot or very cold weather, hence, IDUNA does not carry a starting battery, i.e. one less system.
Thanks for all your insight into engine lore.
Fair Winds,
Rod
BCC IDUNA
Darren: just a note to report that I replaced a Volvo MD7A in Sentient-a 1982 BCC, with the Yanmar 29 hspwr engine earlier in the year. At Marty’s suggestion I paired the engine with a ZF transmission. I have not run the numbers but I think the cost ended up at about 11K after selling the old engine. I worried that this or that would go wrong but at the end of the day it all worked out and I am pleased with the result and presume the engine will outlive me.
Good luck with the project,
Richard Smith