BCC insurance

BCC Forum
1

Does anyone have suggestions for boat insurance companies? I sometimes have problems with convincing an agent that I have a used $100K, 28 foot sailboat.

Stan  on Waxwing, #22


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2
I was using American Marine Insurance, underwritten by Lloyds of London;
Stan Hubbell
American Marine Insurance
Phone: 805-650-3090
Fax:  805-650-0283

The got very expensive last year, nearly $2000 for $125k of coverage so I
went to BoatUS and saved $500.
As far as the value of the boat is concerned most companies require a survey with
a value statement. Some require that the surveyor be NAMS or SAMS certified.
Steve
Crystal Swan II
----- Original Message -----
To: group
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: [bcc] BCC insurance

Does anyone have suggestions for boat insurance companies? I sometimes have problems with convincing an agent that I have a used $100K, 28 foot sailboat.

Stan  on Waxwing, #22

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3
We have National Marine Underwriters, which used to be Ocean Underwriters.  Calypso is old (1976) and not valued at much, but they are very reasonable.
 
They require a survery within the last 4 years, I think.
 
Nica
Calypso, BCC #6
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [bcc] BCC insurance

I was using American Marine Insurance, underwritten by Lloyds of London;
Stan Hubbell
American Marine Insurance
Phone: 805-650-3090
Fax:  805-650-0283

The got very expensive last year, nearly $2000 for $125k of coverage so I
went to BoatUS and saved $500.
As far as the value of the boat is concerned most companies require a survey with
a value statement. Some require that the surveyor be NAMS or SAMS certified.
Steve
Crystal Swan II
----- Original Message -----
To: group
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: [bcc] BCC insurance

Does anyone have suggestions for boat insurance companies? I sometimes have problems with convincing an agent that I have a used $100K, 28 foot sailboat.

Stan  on Waxwing, #22

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4

Hi Stan-
In the past I have used State Farm who also carry my
homeowner’s/auto/umbrella policies. Very cheap, but not interested
in allowing me to stray far from home, e.g. not to Bahamas. I
currently have my boat insured thru Jack Martin and Assoc in
Annapolis, 410-626-1000, they also have an 800# that is not handy.
The agent’s name is Stusek, I think his first name is Pete. It is
thru Seahorse Underwriters in Alabama and I think the primary insurer
is St Paul’s. For a declared value (backed by survey) of $75,000
with a $1500 deductible, I pay $535 per year for the Chesapeake Bay
up to 15 miles offshore with a rider for my Bahamas trip costing $75
for 4 months. They also have navigational territorial coverage of
the Carribbean, as well as US coverage up to 150 miles offshore -no
idea of premium. They do not unfortunately cover trans-atlantic or
Europe.
John Churchill

— In bcc@y…, Stan Roeder <waxwingers@y…> wrote:

Does anyone have suggestions for boat insurance companies? I
sometimes have problems with convincing an agent that I have a used
$100K, 28 foot sailboat.

Stan on Waxwing, #22

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5

I had State Farm when I first bought the boat. The limited me to 50 miles
off shore Not very realistic in the Gulf of Mexico.

Steve
Crystal Swan II

----- Original Message -----
From: “jcskua” <jchurchill@erols.com >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:31 PM
Subject: [bcc] Re: BCC insurance

Hi Stan-
In the past I have used State Farm who also carry my
homeowner’s/auto/umbrella policies. Very cheap, but not interested
in allowing me to stray far from home, e.g. not to Bahamas. I
currently have my boat insured thru Jack Martin and Assoc in
Annapolis, 410-626-1000, they also have an 800# that is not handy.
The agent’s name is Stusek, I think his first name is Pete. It is
thru Seahorse Underwriters in Alabama and I think the primary insurer
is St Paul’s. For a declared value (backed by survey) of $75,000
with a $1500 deductible, I pay $535 per year for the Chesapeake Bay
up to 15 miles offshore with a rider for my Bahamas trip costing $75
for 4 months. They also have navigational territorial coverage of
the Carribbean, as well as US coverage up to 150 miles offshore -no
idea of premium. They do not unfortunately cover trans-atlantic or
Europe.
John Churchill

— In bcc@y…, Stan Roeder <waxwingers@y…> wrote:

Does anyone have suggestions for boat insurance companies? I
sometimes have problems with convincing an agent that I have a used
$100K, 28 foot sailboat.

Stan on Waxwing, #22

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

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6
I was in this business (boat insurance) for more than 20 years.... but am thankfully not anymore... Now I'm just a BCC wannabe.

As you can see from the other postings, it's not exactly easy to make direct comparisons on pricing, and the temptation is to jump to conclusions.  To arrive at something comparable, make every effort to compare apples to apples.

  • Compare the hull and liability premiums separately.  A policy with a $million in liability coverage could be quite different from one with $100k.  Obviously, you need to compare the whole package, but it is more understandable if you separate the hull from the liability.
  • On the hull section, premiums appear to vary with the age of the boat, but to be more precise, they vary with a composite of the insured value and the replacement cost (new).  The reason is that partial losses are paid on a "new for old" basis.  A boat that's insured for $50k costs just as much to repair as one insured for $100k or $200k (about what a newish BCC is going for).  To get a feel for the rate structure, take an average of the insured value and the replacement cost.  If a $100k BCC has a hull premium of $1000, and a new $200k BCC that is otherwise perfectly comparable has a hull premium of $1500, it should not cause you any alarm because the rates appear to be equal.
  • The base rate (before adjustments) is generally viewed as for unrestricted coastal navigation (US) with a lay-up for 4 months.  Add 20% if there's no lay-up.  Take off up to 50% if your navigation is restricted to someplace like the Chesapeake.  Chartering and extra navigation all cost extra.  All the other debits and credits should be more or less the same for all BCC's except there will be some variation for safety equipment.
  • Finally, give yourself a credit of around 10% if you're a nice guy with a clean record.  That's right, there's still some subjective rating in the business.
  • I'm being too simplistic, but this gives you some idea how premiums are arrived at. The insurance business is highly competitive, and people often move for the sake of a few bucks.

Consider the long term effect of changing insurors, especially with a boat like the BCC which can be perfectly serviceable for 20 or more years.  With an older boat, you'll have to get a survey every time you change insurors, and at some point you may find them not willing to take on an old boat as a new risk.  It's best to ask about the insuror's policy with respect to old boats while your boat is not old (10 years is the usual break-point).

As for BCC's, I can think of two situations that might throw some insurors or agents.  The first one is that a used 28' sailboat that is valued at $100K looks very strange. If the person you're talking to just doesn't get it, look elsewhere.  Any boat insuror worth their salt should be able to look it up in the BUC book to verify the truth of the matter.  The second situation is that BCC owners ask for extended navigation far more often than their counterparts with less capable boats.  When you ask for extended coverage at the last minute, don't be surprised if the answer is no.  If you expect to sail over the horizon, ask about it well in advance so that they can deal with the situation thoughtfully.

Remember that some insurors have a reputation for wild fluctuations in their rates, and others for even jumping in and out of the market.  Stay away from them.  In fact, if the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.  There have been many instances over the years of scams in the boat insurance business... far more scams than there have been in highly regulated areas such as auto and homeowner.

The best advice is to deal with folks that give the appearance of knowing what they're talking about, won't compare your boat to some cheap piece of plastic, and are prepared to deal with the realities of BCC cruising. It's also a good idea to stay away from insurors that don't have a real marine department.  Many of them, including one company that's been mentioned in this thread, occasionally provide "actual cash value" hull insurance rather than the more complete "valued form" contract.  Stay away from these offers also.

H.