BCC Weather Helm ?

What is or where does the BCC “weather helm” , come from ?

On BCC 072 , Calliste , I do think I have a heavy helm , but is it because of weather or not ?

Ok, I am , what I read , and I read that rudders should be neutrally bouyant !

I could use my Foss Foam rudder as a “life raft”, it is sooo “NOT”, neutrally bouyant, but sooo positevely bouyant,instead ! ,

, it , is extreemly difficult for me to re-mount it on the gudgeon and pentals, while the boat is in the water,

, attach a diver’s weight belt to it, you say ,

, well after attaching 3 diver’s weight belts, and a two struggling persons ordeal, I got it back on, not wanting to do that again !

Why is a neutrally bouyant rudder important ?

Is it because when you are close hauled, the bouyant rudder tries to float up, causing excess helm , more often described as weather helm ?

Gosh , I don’t know !

Has anyone balanced their Foss Foam rudder, to neutrally bouyant, then sailed their BCC , and experienced any difference in “weather helm” ?

Douglas

Douglas Wrote:

What is or where does the BCC “weather helm” ,
come from ?

On BCC 072 , Calliste , I do think I have a heavy
helm , but is it because of weather or not ?

Ok, I am , what I read , and I read that
rudders should be neutrally bouyant !

I could use my Foss Foam rudder as a “life raft”,
it is sooo “NOT”, neutrally bouyant, but sooo
positevely bouyant,instead ! ,

, it , is extreemly difficult for me to re-mount
it on the gudgeon and pentals, while the boat is
in the water,

, attach a diver’s weight belt to it, you say
,

, well after attaching 3 diver’s weight belts,
and a two struggling persons ordeal, I got it
back on, not wanting to do that again !

Why is a neutrally bouyant rudder important ?

Is it because when you are close hauled, the
bouyant rudder tries to float up, causing excess
helm , more often described as weather helm ?

Gosh , I don’t know !

Has anyone balanced their Foss Foam rudder, to
neutrally bouyant, then sailed their BCC , and
experienced any difference in “weather helm” ?

Douglas

  1. Ah yes, foam core rudders. This is a subject which warrants close attention – check the 2005 archives for “rudder troubles” and you will see why. If you have one of the older style Foss foam-core floating rudders it is essential that you fit a fail-safe block which will keep the rudder from floating off the gudgeons if the safety bolts break or back off. This happened to us on the mooring the night after bringing her down from New York and it would have been nasty indeed if it had happened a couple of days earlier off the Jersey coast in a brisk and rainy November northeaster. The newer ones have less foam and a heavier glass layup and are less buoyant – but I would nevertheless follow Roger Olson’s advice and fit a stop block as described in his 2005 post.

  2. Weather helm. I doubt that rudder buoyancy has any significant effect. We replace our old waterlogged (but still buoyant) Foss with one of the newer Crystaliner ones and noticed no difference. Mast rake certainly will affect helm, but my guess is that for most BCC’s there is not enough adjustability to really matter because of the limited difference between max forward and max aft position of the mast step and the rigid un-bendy mast. Last year when I restepped our mast I moved the step as far aft as it would go and gained maybe an inch or two at the heel, at most. I adjusted headstay and backstay to favor less rake and though I did not make any measurements I suppose I may have moved the head of the mast forward at most a few inches. I can’t say that I really noticed any big difference in weather helm.

For an older boat my guess is that there are so many factors which affect center of effort versus lateral resistance that one just has to play with all that can be played-with (mostly sail trim) and see what works. On Itchen I think there is a noticeable difference in weather helm between draft-aft mainsail shape versus pulling the draft forward with the cunningham, or even better, taking a reef and making sure that the foot and clew are very snugged down and the luff tight enough to pull the draft forward. It’s conventional wisdom that baggy old sails will certainly induce more weather helm. Hmmn, maybe it’s time for a new main . . … Of course, with a new boat or an older one being refitted with new standing rigging, a lot more can be done and in that case I would certainly go for minimal rake.
Scott

I agree with Scott that mainsail adjustment (trim and reefing) is the way to manage weather helm. Zygote doesn’t have a cunningham, so I use additional halyard tension to put the draft of the main around 40-50%.

When sailing to weather, I tend to sit on the windward side. So I usually cross over to leeward to look up the main and judge where the max draft is. A reference mark halfway along the boom makes it easy - I aim to keep the max draft forward of the imaginary line running from that mark parallel to the main leech.

I respect Roger’s judgment and expertise, but I sure wouldn’t want to handle the engineering problem of moving the mast aft just to manage weather helm.

Sumio, whose judgment and expertise I respect, considered the weather helm problem and calculated that a bit of sail recutting, cutting more roach into the leech of the main, would be an easy way to make the weather helm more manageable. Sumio had quoted to me exact measurements to recut a standard Elliot Pattison mainsail - from memory, the leech only had to be curved in by one inch or so.

On Zygote, I long ago marked the sole of the cockpit such that I know when the tiller is at 3 degrees, 6 degrees and 9 degrees off the centreline. I consider weather helm of 3 - 4 degrees of tiller to be acceptable. When I need more than 3 degrees of tiller, I think about putting in a reef in the main while leaving the jib full (close-hauled, I be using a jib, close reach and further off the wind I’d use a jib plus staysail) or, more simply, easing the mainsheet or (in light air) working the boom to leeward (Z doesn’t have a traveller, so I work the mainsheet through the blocks, but that can only be done in light airs!).

Sailing to weather, much of the drive comes from the foresails. Reefing the main balances the pressure from the foresail(s), without appreciably reducing the drive.

The weather helm that is associated with more than 3 degrees of tiller correlates with a heel angle of more than 10 degrees. So I’m now putting in a reef when the heel angle is consistently more than 10 degrees (when I started sailing Z, I would only consider a reef at a heel angle consistently more than 20 degrees).

I’m sailing Z flatter than before. And I don’t think I’m losing significant boat speed. But it’s impossible to judge without sailing alongside a similarly laden BCC28.

I understand Douglas’s argument about floatation from his Foss foam rudder, but I don’t know enough to comment.

In sum, cutting or re-cutting the mainsail is one way to go (and easier than relocating the mast). A means of measuring your tiller angle gives you an objective way of measuring weather helm. And then mainsail trim and reefing are easy ways to manage weather helm.

Cheers

Bil

Very interesting.

Scott, Are there pics of your rudder stops anywhere? What a crazy story, especially on your first trip with the boat.

When you moved your mast step aft, did you max-out your turnbuckles at all?

thanks,
Ben

benjiwoodboat Wrote:

Very interesting.

Scott, Are there pics of your rudder stops
anywhere? What a crazy story, especially on your
first trip with the boat.

I’ve attached an old pic, below.

When you moved your mast step aft, did you max-out
your turnbuckles at all?

No, only made an inch or so difference in the backstay, if I recall correctly. This was really a very small adjustment, and anything more significant would require new rigging or at least some fitting of toggle extensions etc. I just did the little that was possible without major changes. I really think that the most useful adjustment affecting weather helm has to do with sail shape and trim. I’ve sailed all the way across Chesapeake Bay on one tack and only touched the tiller a few times, close reach/close hauled in 8 - 10 knots of breeze. When I tried active steering through puffs and lulls I only picked up about a tenth of a knot. A BCC will do that if trim is correct. It’s only when the breeze pipes up that helm really increases and then reefing and mainsheet and headsail trim, etc. should do 90% of what’s needed to keep weather helm manageable.

Scott

Before we proceed with the discussion, take a pencil and place it vertically on a level surface. Lightly hold the tip of the pencil with your thumb and index finger to the surface. Assume the tip is directly over the boat’s center of lateral resistance. Place the other index finger on top of the eraser. While holding the pencil tip stationary and keeping the pencil vertical, push forward on the pencil eraser. The eraser end will more forward in an arc, i.e. the bow is pushed down into the water. Now induce about 15 degrees of heel into the pencil and push the eraser forward while hold the tip stationary. The pencil now travels in an arc of a circle around the center of lateral resistance, i.e. the boat has developed weather helm. As heel angle is increased or the force generated by the sails is increased, weather helm increases.

To counteract weather helm induced by heel angle, boat designers move the center of effort forward of the center of lateral resistance. This is referred to as lead. The induced lee helm caused by the center of effort being forward of the center of lateral resistance, counteracts the weather helm induced by the heel angle. If the lead is too far aft, the result will be excess weather helm. If the lead is too far forward, the result is excess lee helm. How much lead should be designed into the sail plan? It all depends on the boat’s keel shape, draft, beam, hull stability, amount of waterline forward, the rigs’ aspect ratio, number of masts. I suspect today, computer calculations aid in selecting lead. When the BCC was designed, lead was based on a designer’s experience and analysis of the design.

It is important to understand, under ideal conditions, the boat should have 3 to 4 degrees of weather helm. i.e. the rudder is turned 3 to 4 degrees This makes it easier to steer the boat and helps develop lift for going to weather. Further, the boat will turn into the wind, if the helm is let go - safety factor.

Based on the above, this is the reason tucking in a reef corrects weather helm. Large head sails on some designs can also induce weather helm. We discovered this while sailing a friends Flicka. The boat started to develop weather helm. Tucking in a reef did not correct the weather helm. After pondering the matter, I partially furled the 135% head sail and the weather helm disappeared. We have experienced this on IDUNA. After we tuck in the first reef, if weather helm is still present or develops again, we furl about 25% of the head sail to correct for weather helm.

Scott, thanks for pic and further info. Very helpful.

-B