bcc website

Hi all,

I’ve reposted our website. FYI, its at www.mgearhart.com/travel

Mark Gearhart
S/V Godspeed 108

Happy New Year everyone.  I'm happy to see a lot of interest in improving the BCC discussion board.  I'm still mulling things over and have not arrived at my own final opinion.  But I'll share my thoughts so far:
 
I think the current facility is largely adequate with the exception of the limitations in posting pictures.  Yahoo Groups limits us to 30 MB (e.g. as few as 30-60 pictures).  Rather than ditching the existing Yahoo facility entirely, I've been looking at hosting pictures somewhere else - but no silver bullet yet.
 
If we consolidate everything to the new Sam L Morse web page:
 
The potential upsides:
  • More features/Better functionality: I agree, the Yahoo Groups facility is archaic.
  • Better organization of discussions (by thread)
  • Greater storage for pictures; what limits would we be subject to at Coledata?
  • Easier for new members to join - no need to get a Yahoo ID
  • Better "search" - finding previous discussions in the archive
  • No traffic limits
  • No advertising
  • No love lost on my part if we ditch Yahoo
The potential downsides:
  • Loss of existing archive; will we be able to transfer the existing discussion archive to the new forum?
  • Long term viability: if we move to a new forum, hosted by Coledata and paid for by The Yard, how confident are we that this facility will be around for the long term?
  • Censorship: there have in the past been some discussions (e.g. osmosis) that have aired some dirty laundry.  I'd hate to run into any censorship or have anyone feel any pressure to not engage in any particular line of discussion.
  • "Reestablishment" - the existing Yahoo Groups and Yahoo Geocities facilities are well established and widely "known".  Folks can easily find these using various search tools (Google, Yahoo, etc).
  • Posting may be a little more complicated if it can't be done by email (for those folks who use this method exclusively); folks should be able to adapt pretty quickly
Necessary functionality in a new forum:
  • Forum (bulletin board/archive and email distribution list); limit posting to members and need some mechanism to screen members to avoid spammers joining; support sending pictures in messages?  Would members be able to post via email? or would they have to visit the web page in order to post?  Some folks may be comfortable with the email-only interface available in Yahoo.
  • Database/listing of boats; names of current owners; where they are etc; pie in the sky: dynamic map and pushpin graphic
  • Sharing pictures: upload & organize into folders; members should be able to do this on there own without any admin assistance
  • Listing of boats for sale; with descriptions and pictures; maybe this can be handled in the forum?
  • Multiple "admins" - to manage membership applications; re-organize pictures as needed; manage forum postings (delete spam & innapropriate postings); manage "for sale" listings
John C,
 
I presume you're thinking of some existing "out of the box" forum application with minimal customization - can you point us to a working example?
 
Regards,
Jeremy

My thoughts, inserted below. Bottom line is that though I would prefer
almost anything to Yahoo’s archives interface and nonexistent “customer
relations”, I think we should leave the decision to our esteemed and
hardworking listmeister Jeremy, who knows all the ins and outs and hassles
and tradeoffs of staying put versus switching.

Scott.

Comments below:
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jeremy and Nica Waters”
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: [bcc] Re: BCC Website

If we consolidate everything to the new Sam L Morse web >page:
The potential upsides:
a… More features/Better functionality: I agree, the Yahoo >Groups facility
is archaic.
yes
b… Better organization of discussions (by thread)

yes, this is important. It takes forever to navigate a search through the
archives - especially with those %$^%! popup advts.

c… Greater storage for pictures; what limits would we be
subject to at Coledata?

very important

d… Easier for new members to join - no need to get a Yahoo ID

Yes! They never got a mixup with my first ID straight, thus the redundant
“jsodell2”

e… Better “search” - finding previous discussions in the archive
f… No traffic limits
g… No advertising
h… No love lost on my part if we ditch Yahoo

The potential downsides:

a… Loss of existing archive; will we be able to transfer the > existing
discussion archive to the new forum?

IMHO this is a critical and overriding factor. If it can’t be done, we
probably should not switch.

b… Long term viability: if we move to a new forum, hosted >by Coledata
and paid for by The Yard, how confident are >we that this facility will be
around for the long term?

Nothing “is forever”. But there should at least be a planned way to migrate
the files to a new provider in the unlikely eventuality of Coledata’s demise

c… Censorship: there have in the past been some discussions >(e.g.
osmosis) that have aired some dirty laundry. I’d hate to >run into any
censorship or have anyone feel any pressure to >not engage in any
particular line of discussion.

Well, that is an issue with the current list anyway, since it is much like a
big family gathering of friends and acquaintences, including Sumio now and
previously Roger. A degree of tact never hurt any discussion group and when
the issue gets too close for comfort one can always go “off-list” and have a
side discussion. I don’t see that changing. In my experience both Sumio and
Roger have been very direct and helpful in such potentially sensitive
discussions, both on and off list.

d… “Reestablishment” - the existing Yahoo Groups and >Yahoo Geocities
facilities are well established

<SNIP of several more issues that are best left to Jeremy’s experience &
negotiation with Coledata, if he decides to go that way>
Regards,
Scott
(Itchen BCC 73)

Nice points, Jeremy:

 

  1. Loss of existing archive; I think we can capture the archive (No guarantees, but it looks as if it is possible – that’s an exercise for tomorrow)
  2. Long term viability: In the unhappy event that we have to move it, it’s not a problem. Coledata has been in business for over 10 years, and isn’t going anywhere soon! Once the site is established, it’s a “no-cost” environment, courtesy of Coledata AND Sam L. Morse. (We have a few free environments like this, mainly for non-profits)
  3. Censorship: I have discussed this with Sumio: He will only have Owner access (Owners can only update their own boats) – I will only have Visitor access as I don’t have a BCC. Sam L. Morse is prepared to accept that not every comment will be positive, but experience tells us that a: Sam L. Morse has nothing to hide and b: If we avoid negative comment, we don’t learn anything. After all, osmosis, for example, isn’t just restricted to one manufacturer – I have had to rebuild hulls on three of my boats!
  4. "Reestablishment": The same searches that find the users’ group find the Sam L. Morse site – in fact, that comes first in most searches for BCC
  5. Posting may be a little more complicated if it can't be done by email: I think we can fix this also, but I need to discuss it with my guys. We would probably create an e-mail box for users@samlmorse.com which would post to the site.

 

 

Database/listing of boats:

I have already created a listing of boats, based on the Yahoo data, although it may not be up-to-date, and will need fixing once we publish. I have created the following fields in the table:

Boat Name

HIN No (3 digits only)

Hull year

Previous name(s)

Home Port

Last Comments

 

I would suggest adding LAT/LON to provide a dynamic map environment, but first we need to gather the LAT/LON data, before we can even start on this.

 

Sharing pictures: I have captured all the images currently on the Yahoo site, and each vessel has its own folder.

 

Listing of boats for sale: Not a problem, but probably a different section of the forum – for example, we could have categories: Sailing discussion, Boat discussion, Problem solving, Boats for sale, etc

 

Multiple "admins": That’s possible, if you think it necessary. Here is a question for you: What happens when a vessel changes ownership: How do we handle the update?

 

The forum will not be an “Out of the box” product – we have some special needs listed above, which will require programming. Unfortunately, this can’t be a priority job as no-one is paying for it, so it will take a couple of weeks to create the “basic” forum, and several more weeks to build the specialist applications.

 

Question – Do you have any interest in having tides and weather on the page? Unfortunately I can only provide this for the USA. Weather is determined by ZIP code, and provided by AccuWeather.com, and tides are provided by my own program, based on a local tide station. (This can possibly handled by LAT/LON, finding the nearest tide station.) I have already created the tides program for my own use, it just needs some tweaking.

 

John Cole

Coledata, Inc

Havre de Grace, Maryland, USA

Tel: 410 939-1653

 

-----Original Message----- From: Jeremy and Nica Waters [mailto:SailingBeagles@gmx.net] Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:21 AM To: bcc@yahoogroups.com; jcole@coledata.com Subject: Re: BCC Website

 

Happy New Year everyone.  I'm happy to see a lot of interest in improving the BCC discussion board.  I'm still mulling things over and have not arrived at my own final opinion.  But I'll share my thoughts so far:

 

I think the current facility is largely adequate with the exception of the limitations in posting pictures.  Yahoo Groups limits us to 30 MB (e.g. as few as 30-60 pictures).  Rather than ditching the existing Yahoo facility entirely, I've been looking at hosting pictures somewhere else - but no silver bullet yet.

 

If we consolidate everything to the new Sam L Morse web page:

 

The potential upsides:

·         More features/Better functionality: I agree, the Yahoo Groups facility is archaic.

·         Better organization of discussions (by thread)

·         Greater storage for pictures; what limits would we be subject to at Coledata?

·         Easier for new members to join - no need to get a Yahoo ID

·         Better "search" - finding previous discussions in the archive

·         No traffic limits

·         No advertising

·         No love lost on my part if we ditch Yahoo

The potential downsides:

·         Loss of existing archive; will we be able to transfer the existing discussion archive to the new forum?

·         Long term viability: if we move to a new forum, hosted by Coledata and paid for by The Yard, how confident are we that this facility will be around for the long term?

·         Censorship: there have in the past been some discussions (e.g. osmosis) that have aired some dirty laundry.  I'd hate to run into any censorship or have anyone feel any pressure to not engage in any particular line of discussion.

·         "Reestablishment" - the existing Yahoo Groups and Yahoo Geocities facilities are well established and widely "known".  Folks can easily find these using various search tools (Google, Yahoo, etc).

·         Posting may be a little more complicated if it can't be done by email (for those folks who use this method exclusively); folks should be able to adapt pretty quickly

Necessary functionality in a new forum:

·         Forum (bulletin board/archive and email distribution list); limit posting to members and need some mechanism to screen members to avoid spammers joining; support sending pictures in messages?  Would members be able to post via email? or would they have to visit the web page in order to post?  Some folks may be comfortable with the email-only interface available in Yahoo.

·         Database/listing of boats ; names of current owners; where they are etc; pie in the sky: dynamic map and pushpin graphic

·         Sharing pictures: upload & organize into folders; members should be able to do this on there own without any admin assistance

·         Listing of boats for sale; with descriptions and pictures; maybe this can be handled in the forum?

·         Multiple "admins" - to manage membership applications; re-organize pictures as needed; manage forum postings (delete spam & innapropriate postings); manage "for sale" listings

John C,

 

I presume you're thinking of some existing "out of the box" forum application with minimal customization - can you point us to a working example?

 

Regards,

Jeremy

-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004

-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004

Apologies if this is a double post - I think my first attempt to send it
bounced, for reasons unknown.

My thoughts, inserted below. Bottom line is that though I would prefer
almost anything to Yahoo’s archives interface and nonexistent “customer
relations”, I think we should leave the decision to our esteemed and
hardworking listmeister Jeremy, who knows all the ins and outs and hassles
and tradeoffs of staying put versus switching.

Scott.

Comments below:
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jeremy and Nica Waters”
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: [bcc] Re: BCC Website

If we consolidate everything to the new Sam L Morse web >page:
The potential upsides:
a… More features/Better functionality: I agree, the Yahoo >Groups facility
is archaic.
yes
b… Better organization of discussions (by thread)

yes, this is important. It takes forever to navigate a search through the
archives - especially with those %$^%! popup advts.

c… Greater storage for pictures; what limits would we be
subject to at Coledata?

very important

d… Easier for new members to join - no need to get a Yahoo ID

Yes! They never got a mixup with my first ID straight, thus the redundant
“jsodell2”

e… Better “search” - finding previous discussions in the archive
f… No traffic limits
g… No advertising
h… No love lost on my part if we ditch Yahoo

The potential downsides:

a… Loss of existing archive; will we be able to transfer the > existing
discussion archive to the new forum?

IMHO this is a critical and overriding factor. If it can’t be done, we
probably should not switch.

b… Long term viability: if we move to a new forum, hosted >by Coledata
and paid for by The Yard, how confident are >we that this facility will be
around for the long term?

Nothing “is forever”. But there should at least be a planned way to migrate
the files to a new provider in the unlikely eventuality of Coledata’s demise

c… Censorship: there have in the past been some discussions >(e.g.
osmosis) that have aired some dirty laundry. I’d hate to >run into any
censorship or have anyone feel any pressure to >not engage in any
particular line of discussion.

Well, that is an issue with the current list anyway, since it is much like a
big family gathering of friends and acquaintences, including Sumio now and
previously Roger. A degree of tact never hurt any discussion group and when
the issue gets too close for comfort one can always go “off-list” and have a
side discussion. I don’t see that changing. In my experience both Sumio and
Roger have been very direct and helpful in such potentially sensitive
discussions, both on and off list.

d… “Reestablishment” - the existing Yahoo Groups and >Yahoo Geocities
facilities are well established

<SNIP of several more issues that are best left to Jeremy’s experience &
negotiation with Coledata, if he decides to go that way>
Regards to all,
Scott
(Itchen BCC 73)

Jeremy,
 
Nice summary.  Thank You. While the current site could be better, It works pretty good! Thanks to you and Nica.
 
A few items to underscore...
1. Loss of the archive would be a great loss indeed as there is a wealth of information that will never be regained
2. The new site will take time money and effort to get it going and a daresay, money will be needed to keep it going. Nothing is Free!
3. There will definitely be administrative needs and the capabilities you describe will need to be built in.
4. If or when Coledata goes away (I never thought I'd sell my company either), we will lose everything unless there is a way to ensure that the site can be migrated somehow
 
We should hear from Sumio about the support he is offering to provide. I think I'll call Sumio to find out more.
 
I also think that maybe Cole has a demo site or something so that we can see what features are standard and what he is going to have to build for us. Have you spoken to Cole?
 
 

Kate

Kate Christensen

RogueWave Yacht Sales & Services, LLC.

1806 Dreams Landing Way

Annapolis, MD 21401 USA

410 571-2955 Office

410 703-5008 Cell

801 681-9741 Fax

kate@roguewaveyachtsales.com

www.roguewaveyachtsales.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy and Nica Waters [mailto:sailingbeagles@gmx.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:21 AM
To: bcc@yahoogroups.com; jcole@coledata.com
Subject: [bcc] Re: BCC Website

Happy New Year everyone.  I'm happy to see a lot of interest in improving the BCC discussion board.  I'm still mulling things over and have not arrived at my own final opinion.  But I'll share my thoughts so far:
 
I think the current facility is largely adequate with the exception of the limitations in posting pictures.  Yahoo Groups limits us to 30 MB (e.g. as few as 30-60 pictures).  Rather than ditching the existing Yahoo facility entirely, I've been looking at hosting pictures somewhere else - but no silver bullet yet.
 
If we consolidate everything to the new Sam L Morse web page:
 
The potential upsides:
  • More features/Better functionality: I agree, the Yahoo Groups facility is archaic.
  • Better organization of discussions (by thread)
  • Greater storage for pictures; what limits would we be subject to at Coledata?
  • Easier for new members to join - no need to get a Yahoo ID
  • Better "search" - finding previous discussions in the archive
  • No traffic limits
  • No advertising
  • No love lost on my part if we ditch Yahoo
The potential downsides:
  • Loss of existing archive; will we be able to transfer the existing discussion archive to the new forum?
  • Long term viability: if we move to a new forum, hosted by Coledata and paid for by The Yard, how confident are we that this facility will be around for the long term?
  • Censorship: there have in the past been some discussions (e.g. osmosis) that have aired some dirty laundry.  I'd hate to run into any censorship or have anyone feel any pressure to not engage in any particular line of discussion.
  • "Reestablishment" - the existing Yahoo Groups and Yahoo Geocities facilities are well established and widely "known".  Folks can easily find these using various search tools (Google, Yahoo, etc).
  • Posting may be a little more complicated if it can't be done by email (for those folks who use this method exclusively); folks should be able to adapt pretty quickly
Necessary functionality in a new forum:
  • Forum (bulletin board/archive and email distribution list); limit posting to members and need some mechanism to screen members to avoid spammers joining; support sending pictures in messages?  Would members be able to post via email? or would they have to visit the web page in order to post?  Some folks may be comfortable with the email-only interface available in Yahoo.
  • Database/listing of boats; names of current owners; where they are etc; pie in the sky: dynamic map and pushpin graphic
  • Sharing pictures: upload & organize into folders; members should be able to do this on there own without any admin assistance
  • Listing of boats for sale; with descriptions and pictures; maybe this can be handled in the forum?
  • Multiple "admins" - to manage membership applications; re-organize pictures as needed; manage forum postings (delete spam & innapropriate postings); manage "for sale" listings
John C,
 
I presume you're thinking of some existing "out of the box" forum application with minimal customization - can you point us to a working example?
 
Regards,
Jeremy


I guess I've got an opinion for what it's worth.  I really like the existing site because of it's contents.  The discussion section has been very valuable.  5 years ago I decided to stop procrastinating and buy a BCC.  I did a lot of internet searching and the boat I bought wasn't easy to find.  I feel that the used boat section of the site is a valuable asset to those prospective buyers and I would hate to see it go away.  I really don't care whose brokerage site it points to.  I understand that RogueWave is very committed to the BCC but unfortunately they didn't broker the boat I bought.  It probably would have gone smoother if they had.  I also like the way the site gives information to the Sam L. Morse Co. for those that have the funds to purchase a new boat.  I wish I could have afforded to buy new but I love the BCC that I did purchase.
 
Jeremy and Nica do a lot to maintain the site and for that, I am grateful.  The new, proposed site still needs someone like Jeremy to do the day to day updates and I haven't heard of anyone else stepping up to take on that responsibility.  My bottom line is that I will support whatever decision Jeremy and Nica make.  I hope they stay involved in whatever happens.
 
Doug Beu
s/v Fritha
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: [bcc] Re: BCC Website

Happy New Year everyone.  I'm happy to see a lot of interest in improving the BCC discussion board.  I'm still mulling things over and have not arrived at my own final opinion.  But I'll share my thoughts so far:
 
I think the current facility is largely adequate with the exception of the limitations in posting pictures.  Yahoo Groups limits us to 30 MB (e.g. as few as 30-60 pictures).  Rather than ditching the existing Yahoo facility entirely, I've been looking at hosting pictures somewhere else - but no silver bullet yet.
 
If we consolidate everything to the new Sam L Morse web page:
 
The potential upsides:
  • More features/Better functionality: I agree, the Yahoo Groups facility is archaic.
  • Better organization of discussions (by thread)
  • Greater storage for pictures; what limits would we be subject to at Coledata?
  • Easier for new members to join - no need to get a Yahoo ID
  • Better "search" - finding previous discussions in the archive
  • No traffic limits
  • No advertising
  • No love lost on my part if we ditch Yahoo
The potential downsides:
  • Loss of existing archive; will we be able to transfer the existing discussion archive to the new forum?
  • Long term viability: if we move to a new forum, hosted by Coledata and paid for by The Yard, how confident are we that this facility will be around for the long term?
  • Censorship: there have in the past been some discussions (e.g. osmosis) that have aired some dirty laundry.  I'd hate to run into any censorship or have anyone feel any pressure to not engage in any particular line of discussion.
  • "Reestablishment" - the existing Yahoo Groups and Yahoo Geocities facilities are well established and widely "known".  Folks can easily find these using various search tools (Google, Yahoo, etc).
  • Posting may be a little more complicated if it can't be done by email (for those folks who use this method exclusively); folks should be able to adapt pretty quickly
Necessary functionality in a new forum:
  • Forum (bulletin board/archive and email distribution list); limit posting to members and need some mechanism to screen members to avoid spammers joining; support sending pictures in messages?  Would members be able to post via email? or would they have to visit the web page in order to post?  Some folks may be comfortable with the email-only interface available in Yahoo.
  • Database/listing of boats; names of current owners; where they are etc; pie in the sky: dynamic map and pushpin graphic
  • Sharing pictures: upload & organize into folders; members should be able to do this on there own without any admin assistance
  • Listing of boats for sale; with descriptions and pictures; maybe this can be handled in the forum?
  • Multiple "admins" - to manage membership applications; re-organize pictures as needed; manage forum postings (delete spam & innapropriate postings); manage "for sale" listings
John C,
 
I presume you're thinking of some existing "out of the box" forum application with minimal customization - can you point us to a working example?
 
Regards,
Jeremy