Canadia vs. SLM

Hi Rick,
There are no major differences between the Canadian built BCC and the SLM Co. boats.  The major complaint and reason the contract was cancelled was because of business ethics or payment of royalties to Lyle Hess and SLM.  The hull for the Canadian BCC was made from a hull from a SLM BCC so they are exactly the same.  The lay-up is also the same.  I have personally inspected many Canadian BCC's and found only minor differences, non to be a structural concern.  Note that the differences are based on factory finished boats.  There is no way or need to discuss owner finished boats. 
 
The major differences is the bulwarks are not as tall as the SLM boats.  This is because the Canadian built boats use bronze stanchions instead of wooden ones like the SLM.  The bronze stanchions are excellent but just a little shorter. The SLM Co. would love to get their hands on the bronze stanchions but they are held in captivity at the foundry in Canada. All other differences are nothing to be concerned with, they are not important, such as hull color, etc.
 
The problem is that many Canadian built boats do not have an HIN or Hull Identification Number.  The reason for this is stated in the first paragraph.  The rights to build a BCC still remains with the SLM Co.  So any person who makes a BCC hull is actually breaking copywrite laws. 
 
For all the BCC owners, Canadian and SLM, it is important that illegal hulls be stopped so the value of our BCC's are not jeopardized.  All we need is for some person to build a BCC with too much or too little ballast or skip in critical areas and have this boat sink with its crew.  This would be a reflection on all our BCC's.  Thanks Don in your consideration on this matter and to the rest of the group who I know are equally concerned.
 
Roger Olson

Thank Roger & Don for clearing this up for me :slight_smile:

Sumio told me about the royalty problems and that some of the hulls were missing the HIN, but I was not aware the Canadain builder had a contract at one point.

Thanks again guys!
Rick
Aistear, BCC #7

Roger  --  Yet another difference in the Canadian boats occurs to me: many of the older ones have balsa cored decks.  The SLM boats are all plywood cored.  The balsa had its own pros and cons, but I've found some Canadian built boats with balsa deck cores, and a teak overlay fastened with screws through the fiberglass and into the balsa. 
 
SV MINX
Roy Myers 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:30 AM
Subject: [bcc] Canadia vs. SLM

Hi Rick,
There are no major differences between the Canadian built BCC and the SLM Co. boats.  The major complaint and reason the contract was cancelled was because of business ethics or payment of royalties to Lyle Hess and SLM.  The hull for the Canadian BCC was made from a hull from a SLM BCC so they are exactly the same.  The lay-up is also the same.  I have personally inspected many Canadian BCC's and found only minor differences, non to be a structural concern.  Note that the differences are based on factory finished boats.  There is no way or need to discuss owner finished boats. 
 
The major differences is the bulwarks are not as tall as the SLM boats.  This is because the Canadian built boats use bronze stanchions instead of wooden ones like the SLM.  The bronze stanchions are excellent but just a little shorter. The SLM Co. would love to get their hands on the bronze stanchions but they are held in captivity at the foundry in Canada. All other differences are nothing to be concerned with, they are not important, such as hull color, etc.
 
The problem is that many Canadian built boats do not have an HIN or Hull Identification Number.  The reason for this is stated in the first paragraph.  The rights to build a BCC still remains with the SLM Co.  So any person who makes a BCC hull is actually breaking copywrite laws. 
 
For all the BCC owners, Canadian and SLM, it is important that illegal hulls be stopped so the value of our BCC's are not jeopardized.  All we need is for some person to build a BCC with too much or too little ballast or skip in critical areas and have this boat sink with its crew.  This would be a reflection on all our BCC's.  Thanks Don in your consideration on this matter and to the rest of the group who I know are equally concerned.
 
Roger Olson



Roy:
 
You wrote:
 
"Roger  --  Yet another difference in the Canadian boats occurs to me: many of the older ones have balsa cored decks.  The SLM boats are all plywood cored.  The balsa had its own pros and cons, but I've found some Canadian built boats with balsa deck cores, and a teak overlay fastened with screws through the fiberglass and into the balsa." 
 
SV MINX
Roy Myers 
 
I was a somewhat concerned about your statement.   This was news to me.  We own a Canadian built boat.  I drove to the boat today after learning the Canadian boats, had balsa coring and the Canadians had mechanically fastened the wood overlay through the decks.  Our boat has a deck composed of a wood overlay on fiberglass.  Well, I decided to be brave and dug out one of the large bungs in the deck.  All your concerns suddenly hit me in the face.  I was "sick" at what I saw.  I have not had the courage to telephone my lovely wife and break the news to her.   At first I thought this was not possible.  We did buy the boat in good faith and with a full survey.  How was I to know these things.  I thought that's why we employed a surveyor.
 
After taking this first step, I summoned my courage and went below to remove panels from the underside of the deck.  After removing several panels, my initial suspicions came home.  This will break my wife's heat.  She so loves IDUNA.  To own a BCC has been her dream.
 
Those damn Canadians, yes, I said DAMN CANADIANS.   They had fastened the wood overlay to the fiberglass decks, into the balsa coring and through the fiberglass underside.  Some of the fastenings had not been cut off.  They hadn't even bothered to use proper boat screws.  Those Damn Canadians, who are so proud of their railroads over the Rocky Mountains, had not done the job right.  Instead of screws, they used railroad track spikes.   Yes, just plain old Canadian Pacific railroad spikes, not galvanized spikes, but just plain old railroad spikes.  To add insult to injury, instead of using teak overlay, the wood was milled from railroad ties.
 
I suspect, we shall donate the boat to the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore and purchase a SLM built BCC.
 
Best Regards and Fair Winds,
 
Rod
S/V IDUNA
 
P.S. Sorry, I was a little bored today and love to tell and write stories.
 
 
Rod  --  Glad to give you an excuse to write stories!  I've worked on two BC built boats with problems caused by the balsa coring.  My home port is Bellingham, Washington, just across the border from the old Steveston BC builder of the BCC.  I visited the 'plant' when one last BCC was being finished in the water.  There are many Canadian BCC's in the Northwest.  The quality varies tremendously from boat to boat.  Some have the SLM style of bulwark; most have the style Roger describes.  
 
I certainly don't mean to offend or injure anyone's feelings, but if you do have a balsa cored deck, pay close attention to anything fastened through or into it.  It only takes one experience of scooping out rotten balsa to scare you.  Water absolutely must not enter the wood.  Fastenings provide a path to allow water to migrate through the fiberglass.  Of course, the same is true of plywood, though the process takes considerably longer.  No matter which, the repairs are expensive and involved. 
 
One question: how much care do those railroad tie decks require?  With all the left over creosote, we might be onto something.
 
SV MINX
Roy Myers    
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Canadia vs. SLM

Roy:
 
You wrote:
 
"Roger  --  Yet another difference in the Canadian boats occurs to me: many of the older ones have balsa cored decks.  The SLM boats are all plywood cored.  The balsa had its own pros and cons, but I've found some Canadian built boats with balsa deck cores, and a teak overlay fastened with screws through the fiberglass and into the balsa." 
 
SV MINX
Roy Myers 
 
I was a somewhat concerned about your statement.   This was news to me.  We own a Canadian built boat.  I drove to the boat today after learning the Canadian boats, had balsa coring and the Canadians had mechanically fastened the wood overlay through the decks.  Our boat has a deck composed of a wood overlay on fiberglass.  Well, I decided to be brave and dug out one of the large bungs in the deck.  All your concerns suddenly hit me in the face.  I was "sick" at what I saw.  I have not had the courage to telephone my lovely wife and break the news to her.   At first I thought this was not possible.  We did buy the boat in good faith and with a full survey.  How was I to know these things.  I thought that's why we employed a surveyor.
 
After taking this first step, I summoned my courage and went below to remove panels from the underside of the deck.  After removing several panels, my initial suspicions came home.  This will break my wife's heat.  She so loves IDUNA.  To own a BCC has been her dream.
 
Those damn Canadians, yes, I said DAMN CANADIANS.   They had fastened the wood overlay to the fiberglass decks, into the balsa coring and through the fiberglass underside.  Some of the fastenings had not been cut off.  They hadn't even bothered to use proper boat screws.  Those Damn Canadians, who are so proud of their railroads over the Rocky Mountains, had not done the job right.  Instead of screws, they used railroad track spikes.   Yes, just plain old Canadian Pacific railroad spikes, not galvanized spikes, but just plain old railroad spikes.  To add insult to injury, instead of using teak overlay, the wood was milled from railroad ties.
 
I suspect, we shall donate the boat to the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore and purchase a SLM built BCC.
 
Best Regards and Fair Winds,
 
Rod
S/V IDUNA
 
P.S. Sorry, I was a little bored today and love to tell and write stories.
 
 



Those Dastardly hosers, Bob and Doug Mckenzie of the great white North, have railroaded
yet another innocent yank. You can bet they are swilling their strange brew and laughing
about it right now.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Canadia vs. SLM

Roy:
 
You wrote:
 
"Roger  --  Yet another difference in the Canadian boats occurs to me: many of the older ones have balsa cored decks.  The SLM boats are all plywood cored.  The balsa had its own pros and cons, but I've found some Canadian built boats with balsa deck cores, and a teak overlay fastened with screws through the fiberglass and into the balsa." 
 
SV MINX
Roy Myers 
 
I was a somewhat concerned about your statement.   This was news to me.  We own a Canadian built boat.  I drove to the boat today after learning the Canadian boats, had balsa coring and the Canadians had mechanically fastened the wood overlay through the decks.  Our boat has a deck composed of a wood overlay on fiberglass.  Well, I decided to be brave and dug out one of the large bungs in the deck.  All your concerns suddenly hit me in the face.  I was "sick" at what I saw.  I have not had the courage to telephone my lovely wife and break the news to her.   At first I thought this was not possible.  We did buy the boat in good faith and with a full survey.  How was I to know these things.  I thought that's why we employed a surveyor.
 
After taking this first step, I summoned my courage and went below to remove panels from the underside of the deck.  After removing several panels, my initial suspicions came home.  This will break my wife's heat.  She so loves IDUNA.  To own a BCC has been her dream.
 
Those damn Canadians, yes, I said DAMN CANADIANS.   They had fastened the wood overlay to the fiberglass decks, into the balsa coring and through the fiberglass underside.  Some of the fastenings had not been cut off.  They hadn't even bothered to use proper boat screws.  Those Damn Canadians, who are so proud of their railroads over the Rocky Mountains, had not done the job right.  Instead of screws, they used railroad track spikes.   Yes, just plain old Canadian Pacific railroad spikes, not galvanized spikes, but just plain old railroad spikes.  To add insult to injury, instead of using teak overlay, the wood was milled from railroad ties.
 
I suspect, we shall donate the boat to the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore and purchase a SLM built BCC.
 
Best Regards and Fair Winds,
 
Rod
S/V IDUNA
 
P.S. Sorry, I was a little bored today and love to tell and write stories.