What year or hull number did SLM stop making owner finished/kit boats?
Additionally, what year did the Canadians stop making owner.kit boats?
“Factory Versus Owner Finished”
What’s the point?
Sam sold a hull and deck option, as well as a mostly completed (interior cabinetry installed but without the teak or mahogany trim) boat for a number of years, and that was the case in 1981 when we bought Shaula #59. Some time after that, I believe he decided that some of the owner-finished boats gave the BCC a bad name, and quit offering the hull and deck option. I don’t know about the policy of the subsequent owners of SLM (George, Roger and Sumio), but I think the hull and deck option was offered again somewhere along the line.
Some of the owner-finished hulls have been finished to a very high standard, sometimes by a hired professional shipwright, and sometimes by an owner with very high woodworking skills and lots of sailing experience. Check out the pictures of Spicer (owner-woodworker) in the BCC Gallery, and hull 126 (owner-woodworker plus profesional shipwrite, linked in bccelizabeth.com). There may be a greater difference between a SLM #50-60 and a SLM #90-120, than between a particular SLM and an owner-woodworker BCC.
I agree with IDUNA that the dates you asked for aren’t very relevant, if you’re trying to decide whether to buy a particular BCC. Even those finished by SLM are semi-custom, and differ a lot, especially down below.
Cheers, Dan
Dan is entirely right. Sam discontinued the kit boats for a short time. When George and then I took over the company, business was not so good so we reinstated the Kit boat but the condition was that the company had to install all structural bulkheads, ballast and deck. Only in rare situations where we felt the owner had the skill would we ship the boat without the deck permanently installed. Sumio continued to sell kit boats in this state until the company closed.
The Canadian builder never did stop building kit boats.
I can provide much more information if you need but before I do, I would like you to identify yourself. All the BCC owners should or are concerned that there is one person in the Pacific Northwest who bought the Canadian BCC hull mold and said he was going to build BCC’s. This is totally illegal and it could jeopardize all existing BCC owners.
I believe I got the last boat, and as Roger says it was completed to bulhead and mating of deck and hull. It was 126
Roger:
When was the Canadian mold sold to this individual? I suspect about 20 years ago.
What is the probability the mold is usable? The probability a hull will ever be built by an individual or company considering the market demand for the modern hull design and the cost to produce a BCC today.
My understanding is the BCC and FC molds from SLM company have been stored outside since they were purchased. What do you think the probability is a new BCC or FC will be built by Cape George? My guess is very low to never.
Does it make any difference whether the boat was built by SLM or Channel Cutter Yachts? The value of a boat is dependent on how well it was taken care of and maintained,as well as the market demand for the boat. You visited IDUNA. She is Canadian built and owner finished. We believe her all teak/Alaskan cedar interior joinery work is equivalent to or better than a factory finished BCC interior. Her hardware is all bronze from cranse iron to bumpkin joining plates, etc. etc. Further all her fastenings are bronze.
I do not want to whip this horse to death. I know you have a lot of “bad blood” about the owner of the original Channel Cutter Yacht company but that happened at least 20 years ago. I believe it is time to look forward and not backwards.
“Whoesdream” who posted this thread has no intention of purchasing a BCC or FC or he/she would have explained the purpose of their thread - “flame bait.”
This is my last posting for this thread.
Sincerely,
Rod Bruckdorfer
BCC IDUNA
Rod,
It appears you’re offended by my honest and open question. I apologize for that. It was not my intention.
You’re assumption of “flame bait” is wrong which why I didn’t respond to your passive-aggressive response of “what’s the point”.
No reason to be insecure about something you love.
Purpose of question was viewing a range of historical/current pricing & sale prices on yachtworld and several sailing rags.
Often builder is not indicated but builder clearly has a function in list and sale price not only in the market but also on this site.
A simple question seeking information–Not to offend pride & sensitivities. All on the site love BCC and FC
Rod, I am sorry you took offense to my comments. Please go back and read it again. I did not say anything bad about Canadian built boats nor do I have any issues with Canadian built boats. I know your boat and many other Canadian built boats. They are ALL fine boats. Yes, I did have a problem with the builder in Canada because there were standards set in the contract that he did not follow. Such as not molding a hull number into the hull. Lyle Hess as well as Sam Morse (before my time) received royalties from each hull built. Need I say more… Regarding the quality of the Canadian built boats. I have seen many that are better built than the SLM boats, especially home built boats. I have no idea why you took such a personal offense to my comments.
The BCC mold at the SLM has been stored outside from the beginning but it has always been covered. The story is that George and I both went to Vancouver to look at the mold (1993-4). The mold was certainly usable but needed better or new structural supports. The mold itself needed a little repair and polish and it could again reproduce hulls. We asked the owner to destroy the mold but he was in South Africa but said that he would. After I took over the company, a guy called me saying he had bought the mold (1997+/-) and that he was going to begin producing BCC’s. This information was posted on this forum at the time as a warning to all to watch out for copies of BCC’s. I told the person that it would be illegal for him to build hulls out of the mold and call them Bristol Channel Cutters, which is a copyrighted. After Sumio took over the company the guy continued to ask for help but Sumio refused. Then the guy had the balls to ask for $5,000 not to build BCC’s from the mold. Sumio told him no.
My concern has nothing to do with previous Canadian built boats but my concern is that this guy might build an inferior boat that is unsafe. The bottom line is he could go out and die in that boat and the world would know that it was a BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER. REGARDLESS IF IT IS CANADIAN BUILT OR NOT…IT WAS NOT BUILT TO THE STANDARDS OF THE CANADIAN OR SLM BOATS.
So let me summarize.
- I have nothing against Canadian built hulls (period)
- The Canadian mold is in good enough condition to make hulls.
- All BCC owners be them Canadian, SLM, Kit or Finished have a lot to lose if a
private person tries to build a Bristol Channel Cutter and call it one.
Back to the original question on this posting about hull numbers that were kit boats and those that were finished. This information is available from Cape George Yachts.
Roger and Sumio (who is visiting me here in Panama right now)
Roger & “Whoesdream”
My apology to both of you.
I do not believe building a boat from the Canadian BCC mold is ethical or legal. I can not image how a person/company could be stopped without expensive legal fees. I know the owner of the Canadian company that built BCC’s was not ethical, nor legal with regards to SLM Co and his actions may have “stained” the Canadian built boats.
“Whoesdream”:
I am not insecure, perhaps sensitive because of prior negative threads about Canadian built BCC’s several years ago. In terms of pricing, the BCC has held its value quite well. I suspect this will always be the case considering the number of BCC’s produced is limited, the build quality of the boat and the seaworthy reputation of the boat.
Sincerely,
Rod Bruckdorfer
I am a little reluctant to add to this thread, as I do not want to offend anyone. What I want to say is this: I live in the Vancouver area. A number of years ago I was anchored in Plumper Cove (near Gibsons, B.C.), when a couple rowed out in their dinghy to admire my BCC (SLM #064). The gentleman claimed to be the previous owner of the Canadian company that was licensed to build BCC’s. He mentioned that he would like to build a 34’ version of the BCC (I honestly don’t think he had any intention of doing so - it was more like wishful thinking). I told him that, based on my understanding, someone already owned the proprietory rights to that design. I was surprised to hear him say that that was not an issue, as he could just copy it.
Unfortunately, although this gentleman undoubtedly had the skills to build a fine boat (he had designed and built the dinghy that he was in, which was a fine-looking boat, and by all accounts, Canadian-built BCC’s are well-built boats (I’ve seen and inspected many)), he simply did not appreciate the proprietory rights of others.
That, more than anything, is perhaps what offends some people - nothing to do with the boats, just the unauthorized use of the right to build one of the world’s best sailboats.
Gary
Dioscouri