Force 10 kerosene/diesel heater continued

BCC Forum
1
We had a problem with the Optimus burner, Jet Marked "M" (multi-fuel) which came with our Force 10 kerosene heater. When trying to use the diesel conversion kit as mentioned earlier, the pricker was longer with 2 more gear teeth than the supplied burner, we tried to cut down the pricker to match the length with no avail.
We attempted to light the supplied burner, preheating with a propane torch, preheat worked ok, flame went from clean and blue to yellow, fuel stream from the jet went from gas to liquid.
Opinion was the jet is designed for white gas (coleman fuel) and kerosene, both are lighter grade fuels, lower viscosity, easy to atomize with low heat: with diesel, the heat generated by the preheat is quickly cooled as the diesel, more dense fuel, rapidly cools the lower burner assembly and jet, reducing the vapor expelled from the jet back into liquid form, the liquid cools the upper burner causing the flame to turn from blue to yellow, eventually extinguishing the flame.
You guessed it, boat filled with white smoke, unburnt diesel. Darn near looked like the boat was on fire as we open all the hatches and ports and the smoke rolled out.
We found the fix. The owers manual states 15 psi or 1 ATM on the pressure tank guage, this is good for kerosene only;  with the correct burner designed for diesel/kerosene(Apria), smaller jet, the remote pressure tank must be set for 22 PSI or higher to burn diesel properly.
A similar installation with the correct burner and pressure has proven a sustained burn with a bright blue flame and enough heat to keep a  40' boat warm. You will also need at least 3' of flue pipe to create sufficient draft.
I know, your probably asking yourself, why all the fuss over a heater, just stick a propane heater in? The reasoning behind all this nonsense, our boat already has the Force 10 Cozy Cabin kerosene heater and it fits perfectly. The footprint of the Force 10 Cozy Cabin propane heater if off by 1", requiring drilling 4 new mounting holes, leaving 4 ugly old holes in the bulkhead. Installing anything else would mean filling the mounting holes in the bulkhead and deck and cutting new and larger hole in the deck. The current 1" flue pipe goes up 2", over 45 degrees 1', turns up 45 degrees, then up 2' to the cap, total 3'. If we used other type heaters with 2 or 3" pipe we would have to go staight up 3' and would have to go through the hassle of removing the above deck piping before sailing or rip the pipe off with the first tack; the current piping and flue cap remain in place clear of the sails. Diesel or Kerosene will give more heat and last longer per pound of fuel than propane, diesel will produce dry heat, where as, propane produces water as a byproduct of  combustion.  Besides, it's cold!
New burner comes in this week, we'll give it a go this weekend.
Best wishes,
Marty Chin

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2

As I read your post Marty I confess I began to laugh. I did the exact
same thing with a Taylor kerosene stove. It billowed black smoke and
covered the entire boat with thick black greasy soot. I refused to give
up and continued to replace burner after burner until I finally got it
right.
Ultimately it worked perfectly but what a rough road getting there !!!
Jim
On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Marty Chin wrote:

We had a problem with the Optimus burner, Jet Marked “M” (multi-fuel)
which came with our Force 10 kerosene heater. When trying to use the
diesel conversion kit as mentioned earlier, the pricker was longer
with 2 more gear teeth than the supplied burner, we tried to cut down
the pricker to match the length with no avail.

We attempted to light the supplied burner, preheating with a propane
torch, preheat worked ok, flame went from clean and blue to yellow,
fuel stream from the jet went from gas to liquid.

Opinion was the jet is designed for white gas (coleman fuel) and
kerosene, both are lighter grade fuels, lower viscosity, easy to
atomize with low heat: with diesel, the heat generated by the
preheat is quickly cooled as the diesel, more dense fuel, rapidly
cools the lower burner assembly and jet, reducing the vapor expelled
from the jet back into liquid form, the liquid cools the upper burner
causing the flame to turn from blue to yellow, eventually
extinguishing the flame.

You guessed it, boat filled with white smoke, unburnt diesel. Darn
near looked like the boat was on fire as we open all the hatches and
ports and the smoke rolled out.

We found the fix. The owers manual states 15 psi or 1 ATM on the
pressure tank guage, this is good for kerosene only; with the correct
burner designed for diesel/kerosene(Apria), smaller jet, the remote
pressure tank must be set for 22 PSI or higher to burn diesel
properly.

A similar installation with the correct burner and pressure has proven
a sustained burn with a bright blue flame and enough heat to keep a
40’ boat warm. You will also need at least 3’ of flue pipe to create
sufficient draft.

I know, your probably asking yourself, why all the fuss over a heater,
just stick a propane heater in? The reasoning behind all this
nonsense, our boat already has the Force 10 Cozy Cabin kerosene heater
and it fits perfectly. The footprint of the Force 10 Cozy Cabin
propane heater if off by 1", requiring drilling 4 new mounting holes,
leaving 4 ugly old holes in the bulkhead. Installing anything else
would mean filling the mounting holes in the bulkhead and deck and
cutting new and larger hole in the deck. The current 1" flue pipe goes
up 2", over 45 degrees 1’, turns up 45 degrees, then up 2’ to the cap,
total 3’. If we used other type heaters with 2 or 3" pipe we would
have to go staight up 3’ and would have to go through the hassle of
removing the above deck piping before sailing or rip the pipe off with
the first tack; the current piping and flue cap remain in place clear
of the sails. Diesel or Kerosene will give more heat and last longer
per pound of fuel than propane, diesel will produce dry heat, where
as, propane produces water as a byproduct of combustion. Besides,
it’s cold!

New burner comes in this week, we’ll give it a go this weekend.

Best wishes,

Marty Chin

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3
Hi Jim,
 
A happy new year Jim. and thank you very much for support regarding forum matter.
My office computer was broke down on Dec. 23rd and I took few days to recovering and few more to restore the data. I could start up the computer on Monday and connected to internet yesterday.
I was so surprised to see the heat in BCC forum.
 
I was worried principle of the forum but I realized the only few participant was heated up and attacking John Cole.
and started to criticize Sam L. Morse as well.
 
I will support BCC forum as a owner of the BCC and do not want to control them.
But I realized few of them are using forum as their marketing tool...now I understand.
I do not know if it is good idea to put some rules ???.... it is the morality issue I think.
I will talk with John and make some decision.
 
Regarding your carbon bowsprit:
I am sorry it took so long again but this morning I had received phone call from Bill at Forpare and ready to ship tomorrow.
So, I will go there tomorrow and check/measuring everything (I bring Gammon Iron and fid if its fit).
Thank you very much for your patience.
 
Best Regards,
 
 
Sumio
 
PS. I decided to take a herniated back surgery .... late this month or early next month.
      The back and sciatica pain become chronic and I feel I can not go sailing with kind of body condition.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Force 10 kerosene/diesel heater continued

As I read your post Marty I confess I began to laugh. I did the exact same thing with a Taylor kerosene stove. It billowed black smoke and covered the entire boat with thick black greasy soot. I refused to give up and continued to replace burner after burner until I finally got it right.
Ultimately it worked perfectly but what a rough road getting there !!!
Jim
On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Marty Chin wrote:
We had a problem with the Optimus burner, Jet Marked "M" (multi-fuel) which came with our Force 10 kerosene heater. When trying to use the diesel conversion kit as mentioned earlier, the pricker was longer with 2 more gear teeth than the supplied burner, we tried to cut down the pricker to match the length with no avail.
 
We attempted to light the supplied burner, preheating with a propane torch, preheat worked ok, flame went from clean and blue to yellow, fuel stream from the jet went from gas to liquid.
 
Opinion was the jet is designed for white gas (coleman fuel) and kerosene, both are lighter grade fuels, lower viscosity, easy to atomize with low heat: with diesel, the heat generated by the preheat is quickly cooled as the diesel, more dense fuel, rapidly cools the lower burner assembly and jet, reducing the vapor expelled from the jet back into liquid form, the liquid cools the upper burner causing the flame to turn from blue to yellow, eventually extinguishing the flame.
 
You guessed it, boat filled with white smoke, unburnt diesel. Darn near looked like the boat was on fire as we open all the hatches and ports and the smoke rolled out.
 
We found the fix. The owers manual states 15 psi or 1 ATM on the pressure tank guage, this is good for kerosene only;  with the correct burner designed for diesel/kerosene(Apria), smaller jet, the remote pressure tank must be set for 22 PSI or higher to burn diesel properly.
 
A similar installation with the correct burner and pressure has proven a sustained burn with a bright blue flame and enough heat to keep a  40' boat warm. You will also need at least 3' of flue pipe to create sufficient draft.
 
I know, your probably asking yourself, why all the fuss over a heater, just stick a propane heater in? The reasoning behind all this nonsense, our boat already has the Force 10 Cozy Cabin kerosene heater and it fits perfectly. The footprint of the Force 10 Cozy Cabin propane heater if off by 1", requiring drilling 4 new mounting holes, leaving 4 ugly old holes in the bulkhead. Installing anything else would mean filling the mounting holes in the bulkhead and deck and cutting new and larger hole in the deck. The current 1" flue pipe goes up 2", over 45 degrees 1', turns up 45 degrees, then up 2' to the cap, total 3'. If we used other type heaters with 2 or 3" pipe we would have to go staight up 3' and would have to go through the hassle of removing the above deck piping before sailing or rip the pipe off with the first tack; the current piping and flue cap remain in place clear of the sails. Diesel or Kerosene will give more heat and last longer per pound of fuel than propane, diesel will produce dry heat, where as, propane produces water as a byproduct of  combustion.  Besides, it's cold!
 
New burner comes in this week, we'll give it a go this weekend.
 
Best wishes,
 
Marty Chin

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4

I just returned home from Cabo San Lucas. I took my Nordhavn 57 there
from Dana Point and spent 3 weeks aboard. What a wonderful place. I
left my boat there for the winter in the marina.
How is your boat, is it finished ?
Hope you are feeling better soon.
Don’t worry about the sprit any time is fine
I truly believe all concerned on the forum are operating with honesty
and integrity. Complete points of view are difficult to express in a
few written words and tempers may flare occasionally but we all share a
love of the boats. Even though some may be earning their living by
selling them that doesn’t impact their integrity, honesty and sincerity
. We abound with such folks and its a pleasure to share the devotion to
BCC’s.
Personally, Sumio I would use Kate and nobody else if I were to sell
Cyrano.
Warm Regards,
Jim
On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Sumio Oya wrote:

Hi Jim,

A happy new year Jim. and thank you very much for support regarding
forum matter.
My office computer was broke down on Dec. 23rd and I took few days to
recovering and few more to restore the data. I could start up the
computer on Monday and connected to internet yesterday.
I was so surprised to see the heat in BCC forum.

I was worried principle of the forum but I realized the only few
participant was heated up and attacking John Cole.
and started to criticize Sam L. Morse as well.

I will support BCC forum as a owner of the BCC and do not want to
control them.
But I realized few of them are using forum as their marketing
tool…now I understand.
I do not know if it is good idea to put some rules ???.. it is the
morality issue I think.
I will talk with John and make some decision.

Regarding your carbon bowsprit:
I am sorry it took so long again but this morning I had received phone
call from Bill at Forpare and ready to ship tomorrow.
So, I will go there tomorrow and check/measuring everything (I bring
Gammon Iron and fid if its fit).
Thank you very much for your patience.

Best Regards,

Sumio

PS. I decided to take a herniated back surgery … late this month or
early next month.
The back and sciatica pain become chronic and I feel I can not
go sailing with kind of body condition.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hiller
To: bcc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Force 10 kerosene/diesel heater continued

As I read your post Marty I confess I began to laugh. I did the exact
same thing with a Taylor kerosene stove. It billowed black smoke and
covered the entire boat with thick black greasy soot. I refused to
give up and continued to replace burner after burner until I finally
got it right.
Ultimately it worked perfectly but what a rough road getting there !!!
Jim
On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:06 AM, Marty Chin wrote:

We had a problem with the Optimus burner, Jet Marked “M” (multi-fuel)
which came with our Force 10 kerosene heater. When trying to use the
diesel conversion kit as mentioned earlier, the pricker was longer
with 2 more gear teeth than the supplied burner, we tried to cut down
the pricker to match the length with no avail.

We attempted to light the supplied burner, preheating with a propane
torch, preheat worked ok, flame went from clean and blue to yellow,
fuel stream from the jet went from gas to liquid.

Opinion was the jet is designed for white gas (coleman fuel) and
kerosene, both are lighter grade fuels, lower viscosity, easy to
atomize with low heat: with diesel, the heat generated by the
preheat is quickly cooled as the diesel, more dense fuel, rapidly
cools the lower burner assembly and jet, reducing the vapor expelled
from the jet back into liquid form, the liquid cools the upper burner
causing the flame to turn from blue to yellow, eventually
extinguishing the flame.

You guessed it, boat filled with white smoke, unburnt diesel. Darn
near looked like the boat was on fire as we open all the hatches and
ports and the smoke rolled out.

We found the fix. The owers manual states 15 psi or 1 ATM on the
pressure tank guage, this is good for kerosene only; with the correct
burner designed for diesel/kerosene(Apria), smaller jet, the remote
pressure tank must be set for 22 PSI or higher to burn diesel
properly.

A similar installation with the correct burner and pressure has proven
a sustained burn with a bright blue flame and enough heat to keep a
40’ boat warm. You will also need at least 3’ of flue pipe to create
sufficient draft.

I know, your probably asking yourself, why all the fuss over a heater,
just stick a propane heater in? The reasoning behind all this
nonsense, our boat already has the Force 10 Cozy Cabin kerosene heater
and it fits perfectly. The footprint of the Force 10 Cozy Cabin
propane heater if off by 1", requiring drilling 4 new mounting holes,
leaving 4 ugly old holes in the bulkhead. Installing anything else
would mean filling the mounting holes in the bulkhead and deck and
cutting new and larger hole in the deck. The current 1" flue pipe goes
up 2", over 45 degrees 1’, turns up 45 degrees, then up 2’ to the cap,
total 3’. If we used other type heaters with 2 or 3" pipe we would
have to go staight up 3’ and would have to go through the hassle of
removing the above deck piping before sailing or rip the pipe off with
the first tack; the current piping and flue cap remain in place clear
of the sails. Diesel or Kerosene will give more heat and last longer
per pound of fuel than propane, diesel will produce dry heat, where
as, propane produces water as a byproduct of combustion. Besides,
it’s cold!

New burner comes in this week, we’ll give it a go this weekend.

Best wishes,

Marty Chin

Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
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BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
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