I’m about to get a new mainsail made for Morning Star #16 by North Sails in Seattle. I’m thinking of full batten loose foot. From my research on the forum and elsewhere it seems like more people like 'em than hate 'em that way. I mostly single hand here around the south coast of Alaska so it seemed from what I read to be pretty convenient.
The one thing I’d like more input on is reef percentages. My old (very old) mainsail had 2 quite deep reefs. By my math they reduced the area to about 72% and 47%. The only data I have to work with is that she sails very well on a close reach with the double reef main and staysail when the wind is up. On the one occasion that I heaved to for sleep she rode real nicely with only the double reef and no headsail, the wind was no more than 30 at most I’d guess.
I asked the sailmaker what a ‘standard’ reduction scheme might be and he said 20,40,60 with 3 reefs and 22,44 for 2 reefs. I’ll probably go with 3 reefs but I’m thinking maybe the 20-40-60 might be too fine and maybe should be a bit deeper?
My rig seems to be slightly shorter than the standard BCC, probably no more than a foot and it is single spreader. I’ll attach a photo of my sails up and loose. the staysail stay also attaches a bit higher on the mast than standard. I wish I knew more about the history of the boat, all I know is she was previously named “Realm” and had been to New Zealand at some point. Maybe some oldtimers here have some knowledge of her past.
Any and all opinions on this new main would be welcome as my enthusiasm is only exceeded by my ignorance and there is nobody within a thousand miles of here that really knows that much about sail design.
Ron,
Your present battenless main looks a lot like Shaula’s, made by the Shatthauers here in Seattle. Shatthauer recommended using only 2 reefs and with a trisail for the 3rd reef. We carried the trisail (on its own track) for about 25 yrs across the Pacific and never used it. I don’t know what the reefed percentages are–I should ask the Shatthauers. Heaving to in 35-40k with a double reef and no foresail worked great.
I don’t know anything about full battened mains, but suggest you may want to consider the effect that adding roach might have on the boat’s weather helm. You might need to reduce the mast’s rake (if it has any). I realize that several BCC’s have full battened mains and are very happy with them, so they must work OK on a BCC. Come to think of it, a full battened main doesn’t necessarily mean extra roach, does it?? I guess the full battened better sail shape is accepted by all, the battened cars have no doubt improved a lot over the years.
You might try contacting the loft that made the sails and find out something about the previous owner. Where was “Realm”/“Morning Star” when you bought her?
Dan
I bought her in Portland OR in 2006 through Bernie at Roguewave but never talked to the PO for more than 5 minutes when he dropped off extra gear after we closed the deal. I think he had her for about 5 years but rarely took her out just in the river. I found the earlier name “Realm” from previous documentation but nothing more. Bernie told me she’d been to NZ but that was all, dunno how he knew that. I guess she had been down that way as I found a couple coins from Tonga deep in a locker. Its almost like living with someone with amnesia. A sweet vessel she is though and just keeps getting better every time I hear my pockets jingle.
“Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered”
Ron,
I didn’t have a FB main on a BCC, but I did on my FC. And I hope to on Shanti. And I had a bit Roach on the sail. I found that I had more weather helm with a batten less main that had a hook in the leech. And as the sail got older and more blown out, the weather helm increased.
I bought the full batten main for her final trip to NY,NY from St. Thomas when I sold her. For 16 years her record top speed was 6.25 knots. With the new FB main she hit 7.23. I also had the sail cut a little flatter than normal.
As far as reef points. I would go with the 3 and a tri. That way you have it if you want it.
How do the battens effect how easily the sail slides up and down the track?
I’m with Gary on 3 reefs in the main AND a tris’l. I find reefing my battenless main SOOO easy, but feel my two reefs are just a little too deep sometimes. So I’d prefer shallower reefs with more options, before having to switch over to a Tris’l, which requires a bit more work.
Ben,
On the FC it went up and down easily. But that is a small sail. That said, the main on a BCC is not all that large either. It would be a little harder to hoist a FB main over a battenless one though.
yeah it is still a relatively small sail on the BCC. The test is getting the sail down on a run in a blow to reef… that would be my concern with full batten friction.
Gary my old main has a big hook too so I’m hoping to lose some weather helm too. The sailmaker said they do cut them flatter now since its easy to add power by easing the outhaul with a loose foot. I forgot to mention I’m getting the new FB main set up for the Strong Track system which everyone says will lower my blood pressure when reefing instead of cursing every worn out plastic slide as I claw it down. I made some lazy jacks a couple years ago and also set up the clew reef cringles with blocks so reefing should be dead easy. Still hoping to hear if anyone knows what the ‘standard’ reef depths are (if there is such a thing) otherwise I guess I’ll just go with the 20-40-60.
BTW if anyone would like to see a bit of the local country I posted some very unprofessional short videos on youtube for friends at http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F4689E553E9C27B9 and http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1587AC2F5EAB7218
I own BCC # 23 and bought a new mainsail earlier this year (after some good discussion with forum members). I replaced the original hollow leach main with a loose-footed, full-battened, roached sail on a Strong Track system. I worried about weather helm as well, but the suggestions from forum members and my sailmaker were exactly the points made above: that the full-battened sail will keep its shape better and in the long run, will have a neutral effect on weather helm, or actually reduce it.
I’ve used the sail up here in the Gulf Islands of BC for six months or so (not that often - work intervened) and have found the system to be excellent. I believe I have to reef a little earlier than with the original sail - the roach increases the sail area by about 22 percent. However, with an absolutely straight mast, the weather helm is no problem as long as I do reef early and often. The Strong Track system is expensive - as you know - but works very well and does, indeed, lower blood pressure considerably.
Even though I have a trysail, I went with 3 reefs in any case. In the past on other boats, I’ve found that, sometimes - e.g., in short-duration heavy weather - it’s much easier to put in a third reef than to lower the main and hoist the trysail. The reefing intervals on my main are 20-40 for the first two, and a deeper third reef - closer to 70 percent - to approximate the area of the trysail.
And by the way, I have a single-spreader rig as well although I’m unsure whether the mast is standard height or a little shorter.
All right! I was just getting back to my sail maker as this came in and it does make me easier about my choice. I can’t afford a trysail as my wallet is on its beam ends with this purchase but with that third reef I feel pretty good about lying to in anything short of calamity. Interesting you also have single spreader. I figured the original owner of mine probably just got a deal on the mast and boom and it was close enough so he bought it. I sure wish I were in contact with him, I seem to own an orphan. I’d love to see a photo of Gertrud if you have a few. My direct email is 60north @ gmail.com.
Happy holidays to all
Glad the timing was good. One more thing: I’ve rigged lazyjacks but made them removable forward since it’s easy to snag the batten ends when hoisting and lowering. Roger was insistent on this too for a full battened main when I corresponded with him. I have no information about the single spreader rig on “Gertrud” except that the original owner specified it.
I’ll get some photos to you shortly.
Happy holidays to everyone, and good sailing in 2010
Ron,
Before you splurge on a strong track system check out Rutgerson and Battslide. Of course the Strong system is nice, it’s also expensive. If I was outfitting a 40+ footer I would go with Strong. But the BCC doesn’t have that large of a sail and produce as much pressure on the slides. So you only need a little more help. Would it be as good as a Strong system? no, but I bet it would be 90% as good, and a lot cheaper.
On my Falmouth I only had standard slides for my full battens and it went up only slightly harder than my old battenless main.
Just a thought.
Oh, and don’t get a headboard. Your not racing, plus it is also a maintenance problem.
We’ve had a Strong track system and full batten main on Galatea, and I’m a believer. In strong trades reaching and running, I’ve been able to reef and, as things subside, raise sail without heading up into the wind. We have three reefs, and only rarely resort to the storm trysail. One thing I did was rig a down haul for the mainsail, attached to rings on webbing through each reef cringle. I found using the reefing hooks on the boom difficult, especially for reefs 2 and 3, so I attach the downhaul to a strong cleat on the mast when I reef. Using the down haul makes it easy to get sail down in a hurry.
