Re: sailing to windward

John:
 
Our experience with full keel boats, IDUNA is our second full keel boat, is not to pinch the boat when going to weather.  The Pardey's report 100 degrees tack-to-tack.  Our limited experience with IDUNA suggests we can expect between 100 and 120 degrees tack-to-tack depending on seas and wind strength.  We have also found, full keel boats need to be heeled 15 to 20 degrees to "eat to weather."  In "dirty stuff" 20 degrees heel seems to be the norm.
 
Fair Winds,
 
IDUNA
 

Hello everyone,
I would like to open a can of worms here. I have varying success
getting the boat to go to what I think is her potential when
close-hauled. Sometimes she seems to do quite well, making 5 1/2
knots and tacking thru 90 degrees, particularly in moderate (10-12
knots) winds. However in both lighter air as well as in heavier air,
I cannot seem to get her to point that close without slowing way down.
In the heavier air, I guess this is expected as the seas take away a
lot of momentum, but I am frustrated in light air, in spite of using
my 110% lapper which is brand new and seems to set very well.
Admittedly, my main is original equipment (1985) and kind of tired
with the draft fairly far aft. My staysail is also the same age, but
far less use and still nicely shaped. Anyone with any pearls of
wisdom? Am I likely oversheeting? I try to get the jib about 6
inches off the lower spreaders and the main between the gallow
notches. The bottom is clean. She does great when on a close reach
and at 55 or 60 degrees off the true wind will beat a surprising array
of other boats.
Thanks,

John Churchill

John,
Read your psot with interest. I have a 110 lapper and main which are “97”
sails–I find that the staysail does not add to performance significantly so
I don’s use it except in very heavy weather in conjunction with a reefed
main and furled jib.

I think the single reason most people don’t get good performance from sail
trim is the tendency to overtrim --pull it tighter so that it can go
faster-- I find with my BCC that if I trim to the luff I will always do
better overall. I can point about as well as other CCA type boats like
Bristol 40 etc without sheeting the jib flat like plywood. I think the jib
needs some decent draft to maintain power to weather. Best to experiment by
easing the jib sheet to see at what point your performance drops off. Also
try without the satysail
and let me know if you notice a significant difference.

Like you say–off the wind close reach to broadreach the boat is a freight
train and does run well against many other boats similar size and larger.

Maybe Roger can chime in here too–I know he as raced the boat and should
have some good input. Good Luck
Mark
SV Itchen
----- Original Message -----
From: “jcskua” <jchurchill@erols.com >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: [bcc] sailing to windward

Hello everyone,
I would like to open a can of worms here. I have varying success
getting the boat to go to what I think is her potential when
close-hauled. Sometimes she seems to do quite well, making 5 1/2
knots and tacking thru 90 degrees, particularly in moderate (10-12
knots) winds. However in both lighter air as well as in heavier air,
I cannot seem to get her to point that close without slowing way down.
In the heavier air, I guess this is expected as the seas take away a
lot of momentum, but I am frustrated in light air, in spite of using
my 110% lapper which is brand new and seems to set very well.
Admittedly, my main is original equipment (1985) and kind of tired
with the draft fairly far aft. My staysail is also the same age, but
far less use and still nicely shaped. Anyone with any pearls of
wisdom? Am I likely oversheeting? I try to get the jib about 6
inches off the lower spreaders and the main between the gallow
notches. The bottom is clean. She does great when on a close reach
and at 55 or 60 degrees off the true wind will beat a surprising array
of other boats.
Thanks,

John Churchill

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
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Not being able to see how your sails are set makes an asessment problematic.
First
angle of attack is only one part of the equation. Twist and the slot between
the sails
is as important. Here is a suggestion. It is imperative you have telltales
on the all sails
and this must include the mainsail. Telltales on the mainsail should fly off
the end of
each batten. If you don’t have battens then at quarter points along the
leech.
Most should show a little bit of twist in the leech as you move up the
sail. This
compensates for the the differential in the apparent wind up and down the
sail plan.
If your sail is too twisted, the leech will flutter in the the uper part of
the sail. Keep
adjusting the sheet lead untill excess twist is removed. Move the lead
forward to
reduce twist, aft to increase twist.
A good rule to remember is: Sail the front of your headsails and the
back of your
mainsail. The main will act like a brake if if the back end is closed and
the telltales
are stalled. Similarly, if the main is too open you will not be able
to point as desired. Lots of cruising boats are not set uo for these
adjustments.
You should have a boom vang if your main is not on a traveler or
controlled
by double sheeting.
For example, if you feel the optimum angle of attack is between sets on
the gallows
start there. Sheet to that position. Sight up the main and observe the tell
tales. They
all should be streaming aft comfortably. If the tales are stalled, You are
sheeted too tight.
Ease the sheet untill the sail is twists and all tales are flying. You may
have to adjust the
traveler, vang, or weather sheet to bring the boom back up to the original
set set point.
Try not to over sheet the jibs. The boat itself will tell you how high she
will sail. Be sensitive
to the lifts. As the headsails start to luff, keep that course, make the
adjustment and note your
speed. Pointing high will not necessarily get you where you are going
faster.
Hope this helps.

tom dignam

jcskua wrote:

Hello everyone,
I would like to open a can of worms here. I have varying success
getting the boat to go to what I think is her potential when
close-hauled. Sometimes she seems to do quite well, making 5 1/2
knots and tacking thru 90 degrees, particularly in moderate (10-12
knots) winds. However in both lighter air as well as in heavier air,
I cannot seem to get her to point that close without slowing way down.
In the heavier air, I guess this is expected as the seas take away a
lot of momentum, but I am frustrated in light air, in spite of using
my 110% lapper which is brand new and seems to set very well.
Admittedly, my main is original equipment (1985) and kind of tired
with the draft fairly far aft. My staysail is also the same age, but
far less use and still nicely shaped. Anyone with any pearls of
wisdom? Am I likely oversheeting? I try to get the jib about 6
inches off the lower spreaders and the main between the gallow
notches. The bottom is clean. She does great when on a close reach
and at 55 or 60 degrees off the true wind will beat a surprising array
of other boats.
Thanks,

John Churchill

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
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At 01:56 PM 10/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:

John:

You might try rigging luff tell-tales…would give you a good idea
of what both sides of all the sails are doing. I always sail the luff of
my jib. I have the 110% furling jib top and can trim it so the clew is
just outboard of the shrouds while still maintaining a good shape. Then I
steer a course such that the luff of the jib is just short of luffing. You
find that after tacking, you won’t be able to sail as close as you can once
you build boat speed…making your own apparent wind etc.

I have a full batten main so reading the luff is a little harder
but doable. I also have streaming tell-tales on the leach…if all are
flying, trim is close to right. Still, I sail the jib primarily and trim
the main/staysail to match.

Tom Harrer
S/V Whitewings III