wind vanes

BCC Forum
1

I ran an advertisement in Latitude 38, I assume there are other similar publications where this will work as well, wanting a used wind vane. We received at least 5 emails from the one advertisement we ran, more importantly, the next issue of Latitude and subsequent issues produced a crop of wind vanes, Aries, Monitor, Sayes for sale.

The Monitor seems to fit well on the BCC, I'm sure others will fit as well, in the states, Monitor spare parts seem to be easiest to find.

We have a Monitor on our BCC, you can't fault it, it works well day and night without complaint, just wish it wasn't so damn ugly to look at, no, it's not for sale!

A little caution needs to be exercised when buying a used wind vane as all sellers will have you believe their vane is in excellent condition, most will need to be overhauled, so subtract this cost from the asking price. If they are asking a premium price, it needs an overhaul and they are not willing to budge on the price, keep looking, there are plenty of them out there collecting dust in garages, just be patient they will show up eventually. A friend picked up a used Monitor on Ebay for $1000, sent it in to Scanmar for overhaul and upgrade, total cost was $2500. If you do the overhaul yourself you can save some money, otherwise, it might be better off to purchase new as there are at least 40 upgrades over the years incorporated in the new units.

You might try walking the docks, we found an old English built Aries for our Pan Oceanic 46 by asking around, for $500; it will probably cost $1k to overhaul as the parts will have to be machines for this model, but it's worth it, it's a monster unit, best of the best when money or space was no option. It's to big for a BCC, but if you love machines, it's a work of art, from a time when someone had a little to much money on their hands and craftsmanship was the driving factor.

Older Monitors, the rudder, had exposed foam top and bottom and the foam may be separated, newer units are fully encased in stainless. Older units have bronze gears, while newer units are stainless, older bronze gear units will work if the gears are not to badly worn. If it is structurally sound, I haven't seen one that can't rebuilt yet. Check out the Scanmar website, they have some useful information on purchasing used units as well as a list of upgrades incorporated in the new units.

A good source of Monitor information is: http://www.selfsteer.com/  if you find an older monitor, check for the serial number on the main frame and call Scanmar International at the number listed on the site.

Aries: http://www.selfsteer.dk/

Cape Horn : http://www.caphorn.com/index.html

Happy hunting,

Marty Chin

BCC Shamrock

Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
2

My first vane was a Monitor. I purchased it used for $1500 from
the harbormaster of Catalina Island. I must say though, that in
my opinion it was pretty ugly hanging under the boomkin of Godspeed.

I did find that it worked very well in medium and heavy winds, but
not well at all in light winds. The Chesapeake Bay in the summer
is mostly light winds, so the Monitor didn’t perform well here.

On one occasion, halfway across the Gulf of Mexico, one of the
welds on the Monitor broke, rendering it unusable. So we instead
slowed down and balanced the boat with just the sails and some
tension on the tiller, and finished the remaining 400 miles in
this manner.

When I talked to Scanmar, they noted that replacement parts for
older vanes are not stocked, including the welded part that broke.
We had no problem finding a welder, and fabricated the replacement
ourselves. That’s probably one reason the I’d hesitate to buy
a used Monitor, It many, many parts and many welds. I later sold
it for $1500.

So, personally, I was comfortable spending approx $2600 for a new
Cape Horn which arrived a few weeks ago. I think it also looks
much better than my old Monitor.

Mark Gearhart
s/v Godspeed

— In bcc@yahoogroups.com , Marty Chin <marty_chin@y…> wrote:

I ran an advertisement in Latitude 38, I assume there are other
similar publications where this will work as well, wanting a used
wind vane. We received at least 5 emails from the one advertisement
we ran, more importantly, the next issue of Latitude and subsequent
issues produced a crop of wind vanes, Aries, Monitor, Sayes for sale.

The Monitor seems to fit well on the BCC, I’m sure others will fit
as well, in the states, Monitor spare parts seem to be easiest to
find.

We have a Monitor on our BCC, you can’t fault it, it works well
day and night without complaint, just wish it wasn’t so damn ugly to
look at, no, it’s not for sale!

A little caution needs to be exercised when buying a used wind
vane as all sellers will have you believe their vane is in excellent
condition, most will need to be overhauled, so subtract this cost
from the asking price. If they are asking a premium price, it needs
an overhaul and they are not willing to budge on the price, keep
looking, there are plenty of them out there collecting dust in
garages, just be patient they will show up eventually. A friend
picked up a used Monitor on Ebay for $1000, sent it in to Scanmar
for overhaul and upgrade, total cost was $2500. If you do the
overhaul yourself you can save some money, otherwise, it might be
better off to purchase new as there are at least 40 upgrades over
the years incorporated in the new units.

You might try walking the docks, we found an old English built
Aries for our Pan Oceanic 46 by asking around, for $500; it will
probably cost $1k to overhaul as the parts will have to be machines
for this model, but it’s worth it, it’s a monster unit, best of the
best when money or space was no option. It’s to big for a BCC, but
if you love machines, it’s a work of art, from a time when someone
had a little to much money on their hands and craftsmanship was the
driving factor.

Older Monitors, the rudder, had exposed foam top and bottom and
the foam may be separated, newer units are fully encased in
stainless. Older units have bronze gears, while newer units are
stainless, older bronze gear units will work if the gears are not to
badly worn. If it is structurally sound, I haven’t seen one that
can’t rebuilt yet. Check out the Scanmar website, they have some
useful information on purchasing used units as well as a list of
upgrades incorporated in the new units.

A good source of Monitor information is: http://www.selfsteer.com/
if you find an older monitor, check for the serial number on the
main frame and call Scanmar International at the number listed on
the site.

Aries: http://www.selfsteer.dk/

Cape Horn : http://www.caphorn.com/index.html

Happy hunting,

Marty Chin

BCC Shamrock

Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs

3
Hi. On the subject of wind vanes I agree that the Monitor is a serious oil derrick back there. I regard it as a bumper, but many sailors do prefer the Monitor. And, after all, if you go to the Scanmar booth and look closely at the pictures, you will see "Aloha", #95 back in her previous life as a cover girl. It looks pretty salty back there. 

Kate

Kate Christensen
RogueWave Yacht Sales & Services, LLC.
1806 Dreams Landing Way
Annapolis, MD 21401 USA
410 571-2955 Office
410 703-5008 Cell
801 681-9741 Fax
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mrgearha@yahoo.com [mailto:mrgearha@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:40 AM
To: bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bcc] Re: wind vanes

My first vane was a Monitor. I purchased it used for $1500 from
the harbormaster of Catalina Island. I must say though, that in
my opinion it was pretty ugly hanging under the boomkin of Godspeed.

I did find that it worked very well in medium and heavy winds, but
not well at all in light winds. The Chesapeake Bay in the summer
is mostly light winds, so the Monitor didn't perform well here.

On one occasion, halfway across the Gulf of Mexico, one of the
welds on the Monitor broke, rendering it unusable. So we instead
slowed down and balanced the boat with just the sails and some
tension on the tiller, and finished the remaining 400 miles in
this manner.

When I talked to Scanmar, they noted that replacement parts for
older vanes are not stocked, including the welded part that broke.
We had no problem finding a welder, and fabricated the replacement
ourselves.  That's probably one reason the I'd hesitate to buy
a used Monitor, It many, many parts and many welds. I later sold
it for $1500.

So, personally, I was comfortable spending approx $2600 for a new
Cape Horn which arrived a few weeks ago. I think it also looks
much better than my old Monitor.

Mark Gearhart
s/v Godspeed


--- In bcc@yahoogroups.com, Marty Chin wrote:
>
> I ran an advertisement in Latitude 38, I assume there are other
similar publications where this will work as well, wanting a used
wind vane. We received at least 5 emails from the one advertisement
we ran, more importantly, the next issue of Latitude and subsequent
issues produced a crop of wind vanes, Aries, Monitor, Sayes for sale.
>
> The Monitor seems to fit well on the BCC, I'm sure others will fit
as well, in the states, Monitor spare parts seem to be easiest to
find.
>
> We have a Monitor on our BCC, you can't fault it, it works well
day and night without complaint, just wish it wasn't so damn ugly to
look at, no, it's not for sale!
>
> A little caution needs to be exercised when buying a used wind
vane as all sellers will have you believe their vane is in excellent
condition, most will need to be overhauled, so subtract this cost
from the asking price. If they are asking a premium price, it needs
an overhaul and they are not willing to budge on the price, keep
looking, there are plenty of them out there collecting dust in
garages, just be patient they will show up eventually. A friend
picked up a used Monitor on Ebay for $1000, sent it in to Scanmar
for overhaul and upgrade, total cost was $2500. If you do the
overhaul yourself you can save some money, otherwise, it might be
better off to purchase new as there are at least 40 upgrades over
the years incorporated in the new units.
>
> You might try walking the docks, we found an old English built
Aries for our Pan Oceanic 46 by asking around, for $500; it will
probably cost $1k to overhaul as the parts will have to be machines
for this model, but it's worth it, it's a monster unit, best of the
best when money or space was no option. It's to big for a BCC, but
if you love machines, it's a work of art, from a time when someone
had a little to much money on their hands and craftsmanship was the
driving factor.
>
> Older Monitors, the rudder, had exposed foam top and bottom and
the foam may be separated, newer units are fully encased in
stainless. Older units have bronze gears, while newer units are
stainless, older bronze gear units will work if the gears are not to
badly worn. If it is structurally sound, I haven't seen one that
can't rebuilt yet. Check out the Scanmar website, they have some
useful information on purchasing used units as well as a list of
upgrades incorporated in the new units.
>
> A good source of Monitor information is: http://www.selfsteer.com/
if you find an older monitor, check for the serial number on the
main frame and call Scanmar International at the number listed on
the site.
>
> Aries: http://www.selfsteer.dk/
>
> Cape Horn : http://www.caphorn.com/index.html
>
> Happy hunting,
>
> Marty Chin
>
> BCC Shamrock
>
>
>            
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs



4

There has been much discussion of late about various wind vanes and the BCC.

Why is there not a greater acceptance of the factory Free Hand vane.
Once you balance the helm mine works perfectly. It is simple and fits the boat’s looks and
manners. Mine can steer within 10 degrees in very testy weather.
Jim Hiller

5

Jim,
My Free Hand vane works great too. It’s just expensive. It was nearly
$6000 with the bronze option. I had an Aries on a Pearson '28 that I used
to own and I like the Free Hand’s simplicity much better.
Doug Beu
s/v Fritha

----- Original Message -----
From: “Jim Hiller” <jhiller@ameritech.net >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: [bcc] Wind Vanes

There has been much discussion of late about various wind vanes and the
BCC.

Why is there not a greater acceptance of the factory Free Hand vane.
Once you balance the helm mine works perfectly. It is simple and fits the
boat’s looks and
manners. Mine can steer within 10 degrees in very testy weather.
Jim Hiller

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
Post message: mailto:bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: mailto:bcc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: mailto:bcc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: mailto:bcc-owner@yahoogroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

6

Very interesting thread on vanes. I instinctively like the Freehand,
it’s simplicity etc. However I was quoted $5,700 USD for one and
by the time it gets into the country here and I pay shipping, taxes
and duty that comes to just over $10,000 Australian - then it has
to be fitted.

Compare that with a Fleming at $3,250 Australian and you see
my dilemma.

I suspect that cost is the singler answer to the question about
the popularity of the Freehand. For us it’s out of the question. So
we’re left with the option of buying others or building.

Regards

Mike

— In bcc@yahoogroups.com , “Doug Beu” <ddbeu@h…> wrote:

Jim,
My Free Hand vane works great too. It’s just expensive. It was
nearly
$6000 with the bronze option. I had an Aries on a Pearson '28
that I used
to own and I like the Free Hand’s simplicity much better.
Doug Beu
s/v Fritha

----- Original Message -----
From: “Jim Hiller” <jhiller@a…>
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: [bcc] Wind Vanes

There has been much discussion of late about various wind
vanes and the
BCC.

Why is there not a greater acceptance of the factory Free
Hand vane.
Once you balance the helm mine works perfectly. It is simple
and fits the
boat’s looks and
manners. Mine can steer within 10 degrees in very testy
weather.
Jim Hiller

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
Post message: mailto:bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: mailto:bcc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: mailto:bcc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: mailto:bcc-owner@yahoogroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

7
In  terms of power and sensitivity to wind shifts, the best windvane self-steering system is the horizontal axis windvane coupled to a servo-pendulum rudder.  I built a Pardey style windvane self-steering for IDUNA - total cost $500 US.  Part of the design process was collecting computer modeled lift data for different rectangular vane sizes and NACA airfoils.   From the lift data, the torque around the axis of the vane was calculated.  The torque generated by a vane with a span of 6' and a chord of 1.5 ft or less is relatively low - less than 1 ft-lb at a wind speed of 10 mph and an angle of attack of 5 degrees to the wind.  Based on these data, the Pardey style windvane self-steering system is not very sensitive to small wind shifts in light wind condition compared to a horizontal axis windvane coupled to a servo-pendulum rudder, such as the Cape Horn.  Our last boat was fitted with a Cape Horn.
 
Our Pardey style windvane does steer the boat but not as well as the Cape Horn steered our last boat.
 
rod
s/v IDUNA
 
LIFT & TORQUE DATA
 
The distance of the trailing edge from the vane's axis (backstay) was held constant at 18 inches.
 
![](upload://xspAPEnjaGTMynnpZt5IwvyRs90.gif)
 
Boat Speed 1.8 knots in very light air conditions
 
![](upload://xspAPEnjaGTMynnpZt5IwvyRs90.gif)
 
 
8

I would agree with that. In light breeze with the Free-Hand you need to
essentially trim the sails so that the boat is steering itself. That
means a reach only. I use my electric autopilot. It works ok.
Jim
On May 12, 2004, at 6:33 AM, Rod Bruckdorfer wrote:

In terms of power and sensitivity to wind shifts, the best windvane
self-steering system is the horizontal axis windvane coupled to a
servo-pendulum rudder. I built a Pardey style windvane
self-steering for IDUNA - total cost $500 US. Part of the design
process was collecting computer modeled lift data for different
rectangular vane sizes and NACA airfoils. From the lift data, the
torque around the axis of the vane was calculated. The torque
generated by a vane with a span of 6’ and a chord of 1.5 ft or less is
relatively low - less than 1 ft-lb at a wind speed of 10 mph and an
angle of attack of 5 degrees to the wind. Based on these data, the
Pardey style windvane self-steering system is not very sensitive to
small wind shifts in light wind condition compared to a horizontal
axis windvane coupled to a servo-pendulum rudder, such as the Cape
Horn. Our last boat was fitted with a Cape Horn.

Our Pardey style windvane does steer the boat but not as well as the
Cape Horn steered our last boat.

rod
s/v IDUNA

LIFT & TORQUE DATA

The distance of the trailing edge from the vane’s axis (backstay) was
held constant at 18 inches.

<image.tiff>
Boat Speed 1.8 knots in very light air conditions

<image.tiff>

BRISTOL CHANNEL CUTTER OWNERS ASSOCIATION
Mail List Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc
BCC Owners Home: http://www.geocities.com/bccowners
Post message: mailto:bcc@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: mailto:bcc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: mailto:bcc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: mailto:bcc-owner@yahoogroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcc/

• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bcc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

http://www.hillersmarkets.com/