Yamaha 3GM30F intermittent starter

BCC Forum
1

Here’s a diesel question for Marty Chin or anyone who’s experienced & solved
this particular Yamaha 3GM30F problem.

  1. 90% of the time, I press the button, solenoid clicks in, starter turns
    over, engine starts.

  2. Last summer, after a nice sail north from Solomon’s on the first leg of
    our cruise to Maine I turned the key, hit the button, heard a faint click,
    nothing more, no start. This was after many months of no-problem starts,
    nary a problem with it. So we tucked into the Rhode River, anchored for the
    night and started investigating.

  3. Figuring that it might be a solenoid problem I shorted across the battery
    cable lugs on the starter and sure enough it turned right over and started.
    Let it run for a while to charge the batteries, turned it off, let it cool
    down a bit and then tried to start it again. Push button, click, but no
    start.

  4. The starter switch connections on the solenoid looked a bit oxidized so I
    cleaned & retightened them, hit the starter button and she started right up.
    Problem fixed? No.

  5. On the trip to Maine & back she usually started normally, but on a
    totally capricious schedule it had the same problem about one out of every
    ten starts or so. I can always get her running by shorting across the
    solenoid lugs, and after that she usually starts normally for at least a few
    times, then reverts to the same problem.

  6. If this was one of the “old load” $100 cars I used to drive many years
    ago I would just replace the solenoid. Cheap, easy, and if it turned out to
    be something else, not much time or money down the drain. But the 3GM30’s
    starter & solenoid seem to be an integrated unit, not friendly to
    disassembly and repair. I’m not sure what’s inside that Yamaha solenoid,
    but some of the old automotive ones had a copper disc inside that rotated a
    little bit everytime the Bendix engaged and thus presented a different and
    theoretically less-oxidized and pitted surface to the internal contact
    points. If a stout whack on the outside didn’t jar it enough to make a
    fresh contact, they were easy enough to take apart and clean. Or replace.

On the way back to the Chesapeake we stopped for fuel in Mamaroneck and the
diesel mechanic at the original Post Road Brewer Yard said something to the
effect of “Oh, a lot of those Yanmars have that problem, probably not a
tired solenoid, you just need a heavier gauge of wire from the starter
switch to the solenoid, that’ll fix it.”

So. Solenoid? Starter switch? Wire gauge? Gremlins?
What’s the most likely problem/solution to address before I just start
disconnecting inaccessible wires to check resistances, or replace the switch
& starter/solenoid assemblies. Anyone had this intermittent problem?
TIA,
Scott
(Itchen, BCC 73)

2

Hi Scott,

We have a pretty new 3GM30 which has this exact problem. It took us
a while to pinpoint what was happening as we also had a flat battery
a couple of times.

About one start in 8 or 10 - and entirely unpredictably - we just
get a click. Our solution is two-fold: switch straight to the glow
plugs for 40-60 seconds and then start and if all else fails open
the decompression levers. It always works. I haven’t even
investigated the solenoid. I’m afraid I can’t shed any light on the
cause.

Do you have any trouble with the “3GM30 Death Rattle”? Our engine -
and it is apparently well known to Yanmar that this happens - goes
into a death rattle if you rapidly come from a moderate or high rev
level to idle. You would think that the engine is going to shake
itself off its mounts. The Yanmar dealers reckon that they can
largely fix the problem so we’ll see.

Regards

Mike

— In bcc@yahoogroups.com , “Scott Odell” <jso@r…> wrote:

Here’s a diesel question for Marty Chin or anyone who’s
experienced & solved
this particular Yamaha 3GM30F problem.

  1. 90% of the time, I press the button, solenoid clicks in,
    starter turns
    over, engine starts.

  2. Last summer, after a nice sail north from Solomon’s on the
    first leg of
    our cruise to Maine I turned the key, hit the button, heard a
    faint click,
    nothing more, no start. This was after many months of no-problem
    starts,
    nary a problem with it. So we tucked into the Rhode River,
    anchored for the
    night and started investigating.

  3. Figuring that it might be a solenoid problem I shorted across
    the battery
    cable lugs on the starter and sure enough it turned right over and
    started.
    Let it run for a while to charge the batteries, turned it off, let
    it cool
    down a bit and then tried to start it again. Push button, click,
    but no
    start.

  4. The starter switch connections on the solenoid looked a bit
    oxidized so I
    cleaned & retightened them, hit the starter button and she started
    right up.
    Problem fixed? No.

  5. On the trip to Maine & back she usually started normally, but
    on a
    totally capricious schedule it had the same problem about one out
    of every
    ten starts or so. I can always get her running by shorting across
    the
    solenoid lugs, and after that she usually starts normally for at
    least a few
    times, then reverts to the same problem.

  6. If this was one of the “old load” $100 cars I used to drive
    many years
    ago I would just replace the solenoid. Cheap, easy, and if it
    turned out to
    be something else, not much time or money down the drain. But the
    3GM30’s
    starter & solenoid seem to be an integrated unit, not friendly to
    disassembly and repair. I’m not sure what’s inside that Yamaha
    solenoid,
    but some of the old automotive ones had a copper disc inside that
    rotated a
    little bit everytime the Bendix engaged and thus presented a
    different and
    theoretically less-oxidized and pitted surface to the internal
    contact
    points. If a stout whack on the outside didn’t jar it enough to
    make a
    fresh contact, they were easy enough to take apart and clean. Or
    replace.

On the way back to the Chesapeake we stopped for fuel in
Mamaroneck and the
diesel mechanic at the original Post Road Brewer Yard said
something to the
effect of “Oh, a lot of those Yanmars have that problem, probably
not a
tired solenoid, you just need a heavier gauge of wire from the
starter
switch to the solenoid, that’ll fix it.”

So. Solenoid? Starter switch? Wire gauge? Gremlins?
What’s the most likely problem/solution to address before I just
start
disconnecting inaccessible wires to check resistances, or replace
the switch
& starter/solenoid assemblies. Anyone had this intermittent
problem?
TIA,
Scott
(Itchen, BCC 73)

3

Hi Scott

I had that same problem on my Nor’Sea 27. It turned out I had a bad ground.
I would increase the wire size and make sure the ground is more than
adequate. It is a wiring problem.
Fair winds
Bob

Scott Odell wrote:

Here’s a diesel question for Marty Chin or anyone who’s experienced & solved
this particular Yamaha 3GM30F problem.

  1. 90% of the time, I press the button, solenoid clicks in, starter turns
    over, engine starts.

  2. Last summer, after a nice sail north from Solomon’s on the first leg of
    our cruise to Maine I turned the key, hit the button, heard a faint click,
    nothing more, no start. This was after many months of no-problem starts,
    nary a problem with it. So we tucked into the Rhode River, anchored for the
    night and started investigating.

  3. Figuring that it might be a solenoid problem I shorted across the battery
    cable lugs on the starter and sure enough it turned right over and started.
    Let it run for a while to charge the batteries, turned it off, let it cool
    down a bit and then tried to start it again. Push button, click, but no
    start.

  4. The starter switch connections on the solenoid looked a bit oxidized so I
    cleaned & retightened them, hit the starter button and she started right up.
    Problem fixed? No.

  5. On the trip to Maine & back she usually started normally, but on a
    totally capricious schedule it had the same problem about one out of every
    ten starts or so. I can always get her running by shorting across the
    solenoid lugs, and after that she usually starts normally for at least a few
    times, then reverts to the same problem.

  6. If this was one of the “old load” $100 cars I used to drive many years
    ago I would just replace the solenoid. Cheap, easy, and if it turned out to
    be something else, not much time or money down the drain. But the 3GM30’s
    starter & solenoid seem to be an integrated unit, not friendly to
    disassembly and repair. I’m not sure what’s inside that Yamaha solenoid,
    but some of the old automotive ones had a copper disc inside that rotated a
    little bit everytime the Bendix engaged and thus presented a different and
    theoretically less-oxidized and pitted surface to the internal contact
    points. If a stout whack on the outside didn’t jar it enough to make a
    fresh contact, they were easy enough to take apart and clean. Or replace.

On the way back to the Chesapeake we stopped for fuel in Mamaroneck and the
diesel mechanic at the original Post Road Brewer Yard said something to the
effect of “Oh, a lot of those Yanmars have that problem, probably not a
tired solenoid, you just need a heavier gauge of wire from the starter
switch to the solenoid, that’ll fix it.”

So. Solenoid? Starter switch? Wire gauge? Gremlins?
What’s the most likely problem/solution to address before I just start
disconnecting inaccessible wires to check resistances, or replace the switch
& starter/solenoid assemblies. Anyone had this intermittent problem?
TIA,
Scott
(Itchen, BCC 73)

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4
Scott:
Since you say that you do hear a "click" when it fails to work, the secondary contacts of the solenoid are suspect. I'd replace it. (Some solenoids have reversible contacts, you might check that.)
If you don't hear a click, then start by jumping the secondary input (battery terminal) of the solenoid to the primary input; if that works, then your problem is probably upstream of the solenoid to the switch, to the battery. The switch could be bad, the connections corroded (you said you checked that,) or the wires could be corroded inside the insulation. In the case that it isn't a corroded connection, replace it all, switches and wires. It's a little known fact that wires conduct current mostly on the outside of the wires; when the wire surfaces corrode, the resistance goes up noticeably.
Bob's comments about a grounding problem are valid, also, and easy to check.
Failing that, you might be in for a new/rebuilt starter. If you're a real do-it-yourselfer, and have the time, you might be able to rebuild it for the cost of parts, like brushes, bearings, etc. Start out by checking the wear on the brushes.
Pax.
====
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/5/2005 2:51:46 PM
Subject: [bcc] Yamaha 3GM30F intermittent starter

Here's a diesel question for Marty Chin or anyone who's experienced & solved
this particular Yamaha 3GM30F problem.

1. 90% of the time, I press the button, solenoid clicks in, starter turns
over, engine starts.
2. Last summer, after a nice sail north from Solomon's on the first leg of
our cruise to Maine  I turned the key, hit the button, heard a faint click,
nothing more, no start.  This was after many months of no-problem starts,
nary a problem with it. So we tucked into the Rhode River, anchored for the
night and started investigating.
3. Figuring that it might be a solenoid problem I shorted across the battery
cable lugs on the starter and sure enough it turned right over and started.
Let it run for a while to charge the batteries, turned it off, let it cool
down a bit and then tried to start it again.  Push button, click, but no
start.

4. The starter switch connections on the solenoid looked a bit oxidized so I
cleaned & retightened them, hit the starter button and she started right up.
Problem fixed? No.

5. On the trip to Maine & back she usually started normally, but on a
totally capricious schedule it had the same problem about one out of every
ten starts or so.  I can always get her running by shorting across the
solenoid lugs, and after that she usually starts normally for at least a few
times, then reverts to the same problem.

6. If this was one of the "old load" $100 cars I used to drive many years
ago I would just replace the solenoid. Cheap, easy, and if it turned out to
be something else, not much time or money down the drain. But the 3GM30's
starter & solenoid seem to be an integrated unit, not friendly to
disassembly and repair.  I'm not sure what's inside that Yamaha solenoid,
but some of the old automotive ones had a copper disc inside that rotated a
little bit everytime the Bendix engaged and thus presented a different and
theoretically less-oxidized and pitted surface to the internal contact
points.  If a stout whack on the outside didn't jar it enough to make a
fresh contact, they were easy enough to take apart and clean. Or replace.

On the way back to the Chesapeake we stopped for fuel in Mamaroneck and the
diesel mechanic at the original Post Road Brewer Yard said something to the
effect of  "Oh, a lot of those Yanmars have that problem, probably not a
tired solenoid, you just need a heavier gauge of wire from the starter
switch to the solenoid, that'll fix it."

So. Solenoid? Starter switch? Wire gauge? Gremlins?
What's the most likely problem/solution to address before I just start
disconnecting inaccessible wires to check resistances, or replace the switch
& starter/solenoid assemblies. Anyone had this intermittent problem?
TIA,
Scott
(Itchen,  BCC 73)








5

Quoting Mike

Hi Scott,

We have a pretty new 3GM30 which has this exact problem. It took us
a while to pinpoint what was happening as we also had a flat battery
a couple of times.

About one start in 8 or 10 - and entirely unpredictably - we just
get a click. Our solution is two-fold: switch straight to the glow
plugs for 40-60 seconds and then start and if all else fails open
the decompression levers. It always works. I haven’t even
investigated the solenoid. I’m afraid I can’t shed any light on the
cause.

Well, when trying to start with low batteries and coooold November/December
temperatures the decompression levers have always saved the day for us. But
glow plugs? Unless I’m missing something my 3GM30 has none. Helped a friend
bring a Cabo Rico down the coast in the Fall a couple years ago and it’s
Universal had glow plugs – and that was very welcome when starting cold.

Do you have any trouble with the “3GM30 Death Rattle”? goes into a
death rattle if you rapidly come from a
moderate or high rev level to idle.
Regards

Mike

There’s a real racketey rattle for a few seconds when starting, but only
when it is cold and it smooths out right away. Never happens when throttling
down our Yanmar, as you describe.

Scott

6

Pax and Bob,
Thanks, I think the evidence points to an excessive resistance problem
between switch and solenoid contacts, since the starter itself works fine
once it gets enough current. The engine and wiring are all clean and well
maintained, but some of the switches and connections are fairly old. Guess I
will do some checking with my multimeter and see what turns up --there may
be more than one bad connection, all together adding up to insufficient
current at the solenoid’s electromagnet to pull the contacts together firmly
enough. Since it is unpredictably intermittent it would seem that the
switch, button or solenoid contacts are all prime suspects, maybe abetted by
not quite robust enough wiring. One other bit of evidence is that the
solenoid usually clicks – but sometime not (!). That would point to a
problem upstream of the solenoid magnet.

In any event, sooner or later before we go too far afield I guess it would
make sense to pick up a new starter/solenoid unit and rebuild the old one to
keep as a spare. I don’t think that the solenoid can be replaced seperately
but I’d be glad to find out that I’m mistaken in this.
Regards, Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: “Paxton Starksen” <engrpax@earthlink.net >
To: <bcc@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: RE: [bcc] Yamaha 3GM30F intermittent starter

Scott:
Since you say that you do hear a “click” when it fails to work, the
secondary contacts of the solenoid are suspect. I’d replace it. (Some
solenoids have reversible contacts, you might check that.)
If you don’t hear a click, then start by jumping the secondary input
(battery terminal) of the solenoid to the primary input; if that works,
then your problem is probably upstream of the solenoid to the switch, to
the battery. The switch could be bad, the connections corroded (you said
you checked that,) or the wires could be corroded inside the insulation.
In the case that it isn’t a corroded connection, replace it all, switches
and wires. It’s a little known fact that wires conduct current mostly on
the outside of the wires; when the wire surfaces corrode, the resistance
goes up noticeably.
Bob’s comments about a grounding problem are valid, also, and easy to
check.
Failing that, you might be in for a new/rebuilt starter. If you’re a real
do-it-yourselfer, and have the time, you might be able to rebuild it for
the cost of parts, like brushes, bearings, etc. Start out by checking the
wear on the brushes.
Pax.
===

7
Scott:
It still sounds like the secondary contacts are suspect. They always fail intermittently. You should be able to replace just the solenoid. A downloadable Yanmar manual is available at:  www.marineengine.com/manuals/seloc/yanmar.html . For available parts, try googling "yanmar marine engine parts".
Pax.
======
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/5/2005 9:08:06 PM
Subject: Re: [bcc] Yamaha 3GM30F intermittent starter

Pax and Bob,
Thanks, I think the evidence points to an excessive resistance problem
between switch and solenoid contacts, since the starter itself works fine
once it gets enough current. The engine and wiring are all clean and well
maintained, but some of the switches and connections are fairly old. Guess I
will do some checking with my multimeter and see what turns up --there may
be more than one bad connection, all together adding up to insufficient
current at the solenoid's electromagnet to pull the contacts together firmly
enough.  Since it is unpredictably intermittent it would seem that the
switch, button or solenoid contacts are all prime suspects, maybe abetted by
not quite robust enough wiring.   One other bit of evidence is that  the
solenoid usually clicks -- but sometime not (!).  That would point to a
problem upstream of the solenoid magnet.

In any event, sooner or later before we go too far afield I guess it would
make sense to pick up a new starter/solenoid unit and rebuild the old one to
keep as a spare. I don't think that the solenoid can be replaced seperately
but I'd be glad to find out that I'm mistaken in this.
Regards, Scott


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paxton Starksen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: RE: [bcc] Yamaha 3GM30F intermittent starter


> Scott:
> Since you say that you do hear a "click" when it fails to work, the
> secondary contacts of the solenoid are suspect. I'd replace it. (Some
> solenoids have reversible contacts, you might check that.)
> If you don't hear a click, then start by jumping the secondary input
> (battery terminal) of the solenoid to the primary input; if that works,
> then your problem is probably upstream of the solenoid to the switch, to
> the battery. The switch could be bad, the connections corroded (you said
> you checked that,) or the wires could be corroded inside the insulation.
> In the case that it isn't a corroded connection, replace it all, switches
> and wires. It's a little known fact that wires conduct current mostly on
> the outside of the wires; when the wire surfaces corrode, the resistance
> goes up noticeably.
> Bob's comments about a grounding problem are valid, also, and easy to
> check.
> Failing that, you might be in for a new/rebuilt starter. If you're a real
> do-it-yourselfer, and have the time, you might be able to rebuild it for
> the cost of parts, like brushes, bearings, etc. Start out by checking the
> wear on the brushes.
> Pax.
> ====