Hello All.
I am just about to pull the trigger on a “New” boat to me. It is an early Sam Morse hull, finished as a flush deck schooner. It has been sitting for a long time (but floating) The current owner is 80 and is finished.
It needs a lot of work but for a boat that is almost “free” I am 97% in if we can work out some details. And yes I know that “there is nothing more expensive than a free boat”
I would like to hear what people think of it being a Schooner?
Thanks
Lima
Semper Fi
Hi Lima. Welcome to the forum! Looks like an interesting boat. I’ve never sailed a schooner, bit I don’t think that would deter me 
. How long is she? Looks to be maybe 45-50 feet. Presumably she’s a wood hull. Do you have any design drawings?
Cheers,
Jeremy
Hey Jeremy.
I guess I should have been more clear. She is a Bristol Channel Cutter bare hull finished as a schooner.
28ft hull about 35ft over all.
And I bought her today
Lima33
Semper Fi
Hi Lima - congratulations 
! Sorry I misread your first post. A BCC hull finished as a schooner - that’s super-unique. Would love to see more of the rig and a profile picture. How much of a project is she and how long before you might be able to sail her?
Also - what’s the hull number and boat name? I’ll update the “database”.
Hey Jeremy.
I don’t Have the hull number yet. Need to finish the paper work tomorrow.
How much of a project, you ask.
#1 get the SABB G model diesel running
#2 Hall her and have the rain forest removed and some bottom paint check all through hulls.
at that point she will be sail-able. LOTS of cosmetics after that. I am hopping to be running for summer.
The owner emailed me this old picture sailing
Regards
Lima33
Semper Fi
Sweet boat, you really fell into something nice. There is just something about a schooner rig. I’d have to say it is my favorite. You will have to check her sail inventory to see what she has. There are a lot of combinations. I assume the seller also built the boat. You might want to ask him for a sail plan, it will be very helpful for sail combinations and sail dimensions.
I’d love to see your old Sabb diesel. If I remember right, they do not have a gearbox but a propellor that changes pitch forward and back. I’m curious if you can “feather” the blades for less drag. The sound of an old school slow reving diesel to me is soothing. Never seen one up close but hear they are great engines.
Congratulations!
She looks sweet and you will love all that a BCC has to offer. Additionally, being a schooner, yours is additionally rare and special. Enjoy and let us know if we can assist you as you learn more about your boat! Semper Fi!
We used to have a Sabb GSP on Calypso. She never had a starter motor and so we got pretty good with the hand crank. The engine did not have a gear box but did have a clutch, which we never used. In the cockpit was a large lever to adjust the blade pitch which went from forward, to neutral (slicing water), to reverse, to fully feathered. We would start the engine with the prop just slicing water. You just had to make sure there were no loose lines/painters in the water 
. When motoring, we could adjust the pitch according to conditions; more pitch in dead flat; less pitch in choppy water or when alternator load was noticeable.
It was a cool old engine. 1800 rpm red line, splash lubricated, oil cup on the overhead rockers, and originally had no electrics on her at all. Super simple and solid.
Lifting her out when we repowered in 2012:
@Lima33 give us a shout if you run into any snags getting the engine started.
Vixon is hull #2, built in Palm Desert, Ca, 1978, as a gaff rig schooner. Owners, Craig & Vickie Johnson. I am Dana Davies, hull # 1, Fritha was my boat, built in San Diego 1977.
Fritha was my boat, hull #1, built in San Diego, Ca. 1977.
Hi Dana,
Vixen is a Gaff Topsail Cutter, Craig and Vickie’s second boat “Magic” is their famous schooner. Easy to confuse the two. Having an old gaffer with a topsail adds a level of complexity, took me awhile to get my head around it and literally “learn the ropes”. Vixen is very traditional. for example, there are no halyard winches, you swing or “swig” the sails up using these big swig hooks on the deck. I believe that Lima33 found himself a unicorn in the form of a small schooner. I don’t think I’m alone in waiting for him to get onboard so he can take detailed photos for us to pore over.
Dana, I’m sorry, I’m being rude, my name is Rich and I’m the current caretaker of Vixen. I’ve been in contact with Craig and Vickie and they have been invaluable in helping me figure out the boat. I took a seminar from Brion Toss a few years back to help understand traditional rigging and on his wihiteboard was a beautiful old Gaff rig design. I looked closely and it was one of Craig’s and one of Brion’s favorites. Craig and Vickie moved on from Vixen to design and build “Magic” their schooner. If you get a chance there is a sweet short film on Off Center Harbour about “Magic” and the family that owns her now.
Congratulations- and yes, depending on the level of finishing on the inside, electronics, equipment and maybe deck, spars and rigging maintenance, it may cost a bit. I did a 77 hull never in the water, unfinished interior/deck with no hardware installed and finished her in 2014 (first time in the water) all new hull up inside…. Beautiful, but yes a pretty penny… : ) all wood except the hull.
I don’t think the schooner rig should be an issue, if it was properly sized and the rig balanced. Not as simple as the cutter rig (that has 3 sails) so more lines and gear, but they may be smaller and easier to handle. I would leave as is and try sailing it to see if she balances out and how she tracks- see what weather helm she produces and if you can try a traditional cutter to compare all the better. If there’s a lot of work to be done on the deck or the rig and spars that’s the time to consider a change. I think the heavy hull can handle either rig, but the handling will go either way.
Keep us posted on the handling and what you decide. If you are going to make changes below. Contact me - I did some pretty nifty things like a retractable dining table, storage behind the stove, a stove heater for cold weather, a composting toilet (no storage tank, no through hull), bronze casted deck hardware (to avoid deck to hull drew post failures)and an easy access + storage engine cover.
7745638648
Carlos
Sea Wench- MA
Sea Wench hull #0250677 also had a Sabb, never turned over - brand new- traded it to the yard for one of their historic project and put in a Beta Marine 27hp with a feathering prop to handle our 4-6 kn tides in a couple of our buzzard bay, MA flows.
Afternoon All.
I spent the day on the new boat, 7 large trash bags of crap, flush and pump the bilge now sitting 2" to 3 inches higher.
The main thing to get done today was the motor. I have a date at the yard for bottom paint and though hull inspection on the 14th.
I had no compression and was able to hand turn the motor with the decompression lever in any position. I figured it was stuck valves or the rings, was hopping for stuck valves. I pulled the valve cover and smothered them in every type of penetrating oil known to man a few gentle taps pulled the glow plug and hand turned it. put the glow plug back and had pressure!
New fuel, new Battery, sort out the wires and fuel lines… and BAM! Its alive!
Regards
Lima33
Semper Fi
I believe that Fritha was purchased about ten years ago for about $20,000 from someone in Texas by a fellow who drove her up to Missoula Montana, where I live (I sail a BCC28 on Flathead Lake). While I am aware of who this person is, he has not been answering my calls or emails. He said that he intended to restore her and I looked at the boat when it arrived. There appeared to be rot in a bulkhead that needed to be replaced. Spars and deck house are wooden. He built a beautiful shelter to begin doing work but apparently lost interest. The boat now sits outside uncovered in a storage yard. Someone might take the opportunity to save this boat.
Had the Boat bottom cleaned Fri so that I can have it Hauled and bottom paint Monday (tomorrow). I cleaned the stuffing box cup #.4 and about a 2ft tube that runs to the stuffing box and added new grease. I’m not sure this is good having a 2ft tube but near impossible to get to it other wise. It is a 1/4’ copper tube? what grease do people use for this? After the bottom cleaning I am getting less water out the back? I have to move the boat about a 1/4 mile to the yard… hopping it makes it.
Lima
Semper Fi
Hi Lima. There should be copper tube coming from the sterntube that attaches via a hose to a large black plastic grease cup (about fist sized). Ours was easily accessible from the lazarette hatch. Give it a quarter turn or so every couple hours of run time. This lubricates the prop hub which contains the feathering mechanism and thrust bearing. Use a waterproof grease so that it does not get washed out of the prop hub by seawater too easily. It’s very important to keep the prop hub lubricated.
There should also be a second smaller brass grease cup further forward on the sterntube near the packing. Ours was directly attached to the sterntube. This lubricated the shaft in the sterntube. This one was pretty much inaccessible on our boat and never got touched. I recon plenty of grease migrated from the prop hub into the boat via the sterntube and wept through the packing. We usually had a small pile of grease in the boat below the packing nut. Hardly ever any water though - which was fine by me.
The raw water pump is a small diaphragm pump on the port side of the engine. It is a low volume pump, so you should not expect the flowrates you see on boats with impeller pumps. Tricky question though: how much is too little. If you think she’s overheating (getting steam rather than water), you can back off on the throttle and prop pitch to unload her a bit and see if you get water again. If you’re not getting any water out the exhaust though, you best plan on shutting her down soon.
I’ve uploaded a copy of the Sabb G/GG/GSP manual here. It’s a great manual covering installation, maintenance, and operation.
Thanks, Jeremy.
I have the original book found it on the boat 
. I joined the Sabb group as well.
I made it to the yard and am now on the hard. Temp never over 180 deg?
The guy at the yard said the hull looks good and was impressed with how it had stood up. I was thinking it would only need a fresh coat of bottom paint, but not the case. Basically, it’s a bare hull with no primer or paint.
Getting a new barrier coat, primer, and paint; even though this will have a higher upfront cost there will be very little labor cost and I start with a clean slate.
Lima33
Semper Fi
