I backed her into a work slip that was a bit shallow. At low tide the rudder grounded and jumped off the gudgeons. I searched the gallery and archived posts on this topic but still don’t see how nylon washers on the top two pintles keep the rudder from coming free in this situation. Anyone have a photo or install tips for me?
Finally updated my blog.
Stewart, sent you a private re Freehand.
Thanks David
Rose 76
David,
Do you have a tapped hole in the bottom of the pintle? The machine screw with its washer (fender size?) act as a flange on the bottom of the pintle and prevents the bottom of the pintle from moving up past the bottom of the grudgeon. The washer diameter needs to be greater than the pintle plus bushing’s diameter. I think I used a nylon washer on top of a ss washer, to reduce possible friction. The pintle should extend just a bit below the grudgeon. Hope this helps.
After building his BCC for six yrs, a friend took his BCC out of his slip for the first time. He barely got past the breakwater when his rudder floated up and was only connected to the boat by the auto helm! I don’t know how he got back, but his story impressed on me the importance of that bolt and washer!! Reinstalling the buoyant rudder in the water can be a challenge if you are singlehanded. I put some polysulfide on the bolt threads to make sure it does’t work itself out.
Dan Shaula
Thank you, Dan. Moving this project to the top of the top of the list.
There is some good info on this serious problem in the archive. Search on
Itchen and rudder in 2004?
A lock nut and Loctite is better than nothing. But one really needs a
semi-permanent block fixed under the gudgeon to be truly safe. Would say
more but we are underway around Frying Pan Shoals heading for Southport and
email connection is minimal.
Scott
On Dec 20, 2012 7:28 AM, “BCC Forums” bccforums@samlmorse.com wrote:
Hi Dave,
Not sure it’ll make you feel any better but you’re not the first or second person that’s happened to.
About 16 years ago while en route from Martha’s Vineyard to Bermuda ( alone ) in a home built BBC when a few hundred miles South of the Vineyard the winds turned around and gave me a pretty big following sea. Early that evening I sat in the cockpit eating a supper when heard a loud " clunk " . I looked and discovered that the rudder had lifted right off it’s gudgeons and was about to float away !
To make a short story long it took me all of two days to get the thing back in place and jury rigged enough that it would stay in place until I got to Bermuda where I had the boat hauled and fixed properly.
I highly approve of your moving that project to the top of your list !
Baba
Thanks, Scott. I found the archived thread on this topic. Added security of stop blocks seems a sound insurance investment.
Hello Dave
On my boat Thistle the center pintle extends about an inch below the gudgeon. It has a horizontal clearance hole for a 1/4"bolt that holds a bronze doughnut that that takes up the space and load should it ever get pushed up. I agree that securing the rudder should be a top priority.
Happy sailing
Eric Pomber
Thistle BCC29
most interesting folks, I had the same issue in the Exunas. In a very tight anchorage and the boat swung with tide and rudder brushed a sand bank whilst we were off doing our thing on the beach. Came back to the boat and the guy moored next over watched the boat all day, came over and explained what had happened. Anyway got on board and the rudder had risen with one Gudgeon coming out of its house, and I think the whole rudder would have slipped off but for the tiller which prevented it. Made a nice grove on the top end of the tiller. With a bit of leverage I managed to work the gudgeon back over the pintle and it fell back in place. No damage done.
The thought thereafter was that taking the tiller out while on autohelm may not be a smart thing to do. I need a small schematic drawing to see exactly how this restraining device works. It is a horror story gone real watching ones steering wash away.
Hello All - on Calypso, I have a block of teak lag screwed to the rudder in
the gap below the upper pintle/gudgeon pair. This prevents the rudder from
sliding up, as the gudgeon immediately hits the teak block. It’s low tech
but effective. And its hidden behind the rudder cheecks - so out of sight.
Cheers, Jeremy
Jeremy:
IDUNA is similarly fitted with a stop-block - simple and effective.
R
IDUNA
Likewise Itchen, photo attached of our stop block, probably similar to Calypso’s. Easily to remove if one wants-to, but very very secure. After Itchen’s floating rudder experience (and the several other similar reports) some sort of positive stop which does not depend on the bolt, washer and dab of Loctite is an absolutely essential safety precaution for BCC’s equipped with foam-core rudders. Eric Pomber’s method used for Thistle also sounds good.
I personally checked our as-installed “factory recommended” bolt and washer when we acquired Itchen, and it passed the survey. But it unscrewed itself two days later somewhere between Sandy Hook and Annapolis. There is a lot of back and forth banging around going on down there and Murphy’s Law applies.
Happy Solstice to all, from Itchen, still heading south but tucked into safe haven in Southport, NC, waiting for today’s gale to moderate.
PS. Server rejected the “attached photo” will debug & try again later
Jeremy:
IDUNA is similarly fitted with a stop-block -
simple and effective.R
IDUNA
Not sure where I read it , maybe , Bingham’s Ferrocement boat building book, but some where an author said that rudders are suposed to be “Neutrally Bouyant” !
A positively bouyant rudder causes a weather helm problem on a heal , or so it was said , because it wants to float upward .
My Foss Foam rudder floats like a surfboard and is extreemly difficult to re-install if it comes adrift in the water.
So what would Lyle Hess say about it ?
The “Rudder_Bolt” attached photo above by Milhan , shows a open space between that bolt head and the rudder cut-out . I think I saw on BCC Mataphora (sp-?) , that a small round block of wood was glued on the rudder under that bolt head to fill in that space , and I think that was Roger’s remedy as well , maybe even his idea ?
The idea of using diver weight belts to counter act the Foss Foam rudder bouyancy inorder to re-insert the rudder into it’s gudegons when still in the water , is flawed , by my experience , and I won’t even try that again !
Mehmet,
Thanks for photo. I see two folding padeyes bolted to your rudder. Are these steps for boarding?
Thanks,
David
Yes they are David… I did not have the opportunity to try them but I thing it is a great idea. If I can get my feet all the way up there!..
Mehmet
CERYAN #53
Ah I see said the blind man, my problem visualizing the pintle/ gudgeon relationship, on my boat the pintle points up and is secured to the stern. Just couldn’t see how screwing a washer was going to fix it! So I guess I will have to use the block technique.Can anyone give me dimensions for it, as you know the boat is in florida and I am in Newfoundland.
Stewart,
Was your rudder bronze cast by Port Townsend Foundry? Is your rudder wood or foam? It’s interesting that your pintles are attached to your transom, pointing up, rather than to the rudder, pointing down. I think the dimensions of your block will depend on your unusual setup. Maybe you should just bring a piece of teak to the boat and cut it to fit. It seems like it depends on whether there’s a notch in the rudder above your gudgeon. If not, you will have to bolt the block to the transom, or cut a notch in the rudder.
Dan Shaula
the rudder is knotched and I believe that the castings were from port touwnsend, the rudder I believe is solid and wood, I was told it was the"beefed up "one. It tood all the strength of the shipwright to lift it in place. I will take a chunk of teak with me, hopeful to get down there in the spring, can’t wait. Have a great xmas and new year everyone.
Stewart,
I think I goofed about where your notch and the wood block/stop needs to be. It has to be BELOW your pintle, or you wouldn’t be able to lift the rudder/gudgeons up onto the the transom-mounted pintles. A jam block on the rudder is better than a keeper block bolted to the transom, don’t you think?
Dan Shaula
Stewart
There are 3 gudgeons and pintles. If the top and bottom pintles are pointing down and set in their respective gudgeons, they carry the weight. if any, (the rudder could be neutral or even buoyant) of the rudder. And, if the middle pintle is pointing up through its gudgeon, it and the gudgeon are mounted upside down. They are mounted upside down with the sole purpose and intent of preventing the rudder from coming off the boat.
Good solution; now there is no way the rudder can ride out of the top and bottom gudgeons. There is however a downside. The only way to remove the rudder is to remove the middle gudgeon, and more importantly the weak link is no longer a washer secured to the pintle with a machine screw. Now it is the transom itself.
Merry Christmas, all
